WAYNE BROWN: Hello, I’m your host, Wayne Brown, and welcome to the ET project. We’re delighted to be delivering this podcast for executive talent all over the world, whom we’re affectionately referring to as Team ET. Today we’re chatting with Mr. Brett Duncan, who started out decades back in the land of infomercials. Today, he finds himself at the leading edge of the sales revolution. On this show you know we talk a lot about what it takes to lead through uncertainty, through change, through moments where the rules are being rewritten. Well, right now, the rules of sales are being rewritten. For years, businesses have used chatbots on their websites; these things answer basic questions, they save a little time, but they don’t sell. Well, that’s changing, and the change is happening faster than most leaders realize today. A new wave of AI, what industry analysts are calling agentic commerce, is moving beyond simple Q&A. These systems are being trained to guide prospects to qualify leads and handle objections, and even complete transactions. They’re not just tools, they’re becoming digital members of the sales team. So, in this episode, I sit down with Brett, who has actually built a cutting-edge sales avatar named Tess, and we talk about the strategic decisions behind it, how they train it on specialized data to earn trust, where they drew the line between AI autonomy and human oversight, and what they’ve learned from early tests with real businesses. And then we do something we’ve never done on the show before, we demo the product, putting their avatar to the test, asking the kinds of questions any skeptical buyer would ask, and you’ll hear exactly how it performs; no scripts, no edits. If you’re a business leader trying to make sense of where AI fits into your sales strategy, or whether it’s worth paying attention to at all, this conversation will give you a front row seat to what’s actually possible right now. 

INTRO: Welcome to the ET project, a podcast for those executive talents determined to release their true potential and create an impact. Join our veteran coach and mentor, Wayne Brown, as we unpack an exciting future together.

WAYNE BROWN: Hello, team. Today, we welcome you to a glimpse into the near future. We’ve probably all used chatbots on websites for years now, those little boxes that ask if we need help. But over the past 12 to, let’s say, 18 months, something fundamental has shifted, we’re moving from chatbots that respond to AI agents that act. This is the rise of what industry experts call agentic commerce, AI that doesn’t just answer questions, but it guides prospects and leads, or qualifies to lead at least, and even completes transactions. And today we have a guest who has built exactly that, a sales avatar that does all of this and more. But before we dive into their specific solution, let’s talk a little bit about what’s happening in the market that makes this the right moment for his launch. So, Brett Duncan, welcome to the ET project, great to have you on board, I’m looking forward to the demo a little bit later. How is everything going? 

BRETT DUNCAN: Wayne, it’s great. Thanks for having me today, it’s a pleasure.

WAYNE BROWN: Where are you, by the way? Where are you sitting?

BRETT DUNCAN: We’re in California, Mission Viejo, California. 

WAYNE BROWN: Very good. And you’ve been busy for the past twelve months or so, working on this new app.

BRETT DUNCAN: Right, it has been a definite adventure. Just to give you a little background with me, I used to do infomercials and commercials for cable, and testimonials seemed to get my response up a little bit. I was always sold on word-of-mouth and that kind of thing. So basically, when the websites came along back in ‘95, I know I’m dating myself, but yeah, I thought, man, this is the nothing burger, it’s just a two-dimensional brochure. So, for about five years I was trying to figure out, you know, I thought video first, but video wouldn’t work because it took too long. And so meanwhile, I started a testimonial agency with audio only for websites where I would interview people and put their audio on their website versus text, and it worked, it didn’t… you know, you needed a lot of volume, like anything, to get results. But it always stuck with me and I had that agency for about 10 years. And meanwhile, fast forwarding, AI came into play and I saw such an opportunity with AI being a liaison to our website and being able to call out whatever is needed to get to the bottom line.

[00:05:00] 

BRETT DUNCAN: Because if you have a website and you’re spending money on pay-per-click or organic listings and you’re competing at the top, what do you want the visitor to do when you come to a website? You want them to do something, whether it’s fill out a form or pick up the phone and call, email. Well, forms seem to be the best thing for conversion for most businesses, but the bottom line is the average form gets about a 70% abandonment rate. So, what we’ve done is we’ve created an AI platform that instead of relying on the form, she asks you all the questions and sends that data in a transcript to the client. So, it’s seamless, it’s like part of the conversation. She gets to know you, she makes a friend, she finds your problem, and then she sends out the information form, whether it’s a pre-qualification form or if it’s just, you know, you want to get a contact or you want to get a call back, any of that, she can handle it.

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah, it’s definitely a major shift from where we used to be and we’re starting to get more familiar with these terms, agentic AI or autonomous agents. For those listeners, and our listeners, Brett, are predominantly leaders, entrepreneurs, people running businesses, not all of them are deep into the technical widths. What are we talking about when we talk about agentic AI or autonomous agents? What does it actually mean?

BRETT DUNCAN: If you’re referring to your typical bot, it has limitations and those limitations come down to texting, you have to text to communicate. And I always, you know, I’m not a texter, are you a texter, Wayne? Do you like to text on a phone? Seriously.

WAYNE BROWN: It’s not my favorite.

BRETT DUNCAN: And guess what? A lot of people they sit there, text on the phone while you’re driving or whatever. So, that’s our kick, when it comes to new technology out there, I just feel having an avatar that knows everything about the business, knows how to sell, knows the format of what to do to get to the next phase of what the client or the website owner wants. And typically, they want a lead, they want a hot lead. So, her job is and where the shift is in lieu of a typical bot, it actually does what a sales agent would do. Just imagine taking your best sales agent and having them on your website 365 days a year, 24/7, which is impossible. But if you could, you definitely would get more sales off your website because you’re able to find out their needs and sell, and that’s what’s missing, if that’s answering your question.

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah, for sure. Myself, I’m dabbling in the whole AI space at the moment as well, building an app for our operations. And what I see is that the whole transition is moving so quickly that it’s very hard to keep up with. When I started building this about six months ago, I think we were using a series of different AI language models and the evolution of those versions has been so prolific, it’s really hard to even just keep up with it. But what we’re seeing now from what I saw of what you’ve built is that we can really put these agents to work and as you just said, they can be working 24/7 in the background. And it’s a new era for most of us, particularly the older generation, this stuff was written in the sci-fi books many, many years ago, many decades ago.

BRETT DUNCAN: Right. Yeah. I watched Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, all those were my favorites. Well, we’re thinking outside the box, think about it in another 10 years, we’re going to have flying cars, believe me, and nobody is going to think twice about it. Businesses that fear, people that don’t understand AI, they need to take time and understand the capabilities because, yes, can it replace a receptionist? Absolutely. Can it replace a salesperson? Absolutely. 

[00:10:00] 

BRETT DUNCAN: Can it replace a CRM? Customer service person? Yes. And that’s because it will adapt to anything you give it and it’ll learn from the prospect even. So, in other words, the more she adapts to your business, the more she learns about the questions that are asked and how to handle them. So, she’s just, I call her… a bot is a bot, she’s actually humanoid avatar. Her name is Tess, T-E-S-S, and that’s the brand, Tess, you know, ‘Just Ask Tess.’ I’m creating a podcast myself, it’s a AITV Network, it’s called ‘Just Ask AI,’ basically. What the show is going to do is actually the people are going to ask AI, how does AI help a website? 

WAYNE BROWN: I don’t know if people can see, but down in the bottom corner, bottom right-hand corner is where Tess is. 

TESS: Hello. How can I assist you today?

BRETT DUNCAN: Hi. I’d like to know how AI can help my website get more conversion.

TESS: Great question. AI can significantly boost your website’s conversion rate by turning passive visitors into active leads. For example, an AI voice bot can engage visitors in real time conversations, answer their questions, overcome objections with personalized video testimonials and qualify leads. So, your sales team only talks to people who are genuinely interested. This helps close the conversion gap where most websites lose 96 out of every 100 visitors. With AI, you’re not just answering questions, you’re guiding people to say yes.

BRETT DUNCAN: So, what tools can be used to add more conversion?

TESS: To boost conversions, you can use AI-powered tools like a voice bot that conducts natural conversational interviews with visitors, asking questions, addressing concerns, and even showing relevant video testimonials in real time. This turns a simple website visit into a personalized sales conversation. You can also integrate AI that analyzes user behavior and automatically offers the right next step, like booking a call or downloading a guide. These tools work seamlessly with your existing website and CRM, saving time and dramatically increasing the chances of turning a visitor into a customer. 

BRETT DUNCAN: Okay. So, I’m going to show you just a quick example of what she was talking about, here’s an example of a website. Let’s say the person on the web visitor said, I’m not sure if I want to do business with you, do you have any… how do I trust you or anything like that? Any negative? Well, she’d bring up testimonials and they can actually pick up a testimonial of what they want and it comes right here.

TESTIMONIAL VOICE: Our mortgage forms had a 67% abandonment rate.

BRETT DUNCAN: So, you get the idea. 

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah 

BRETT DUNCAN: So, we have testimonials, we have smart screens, we can take them anywhere on the website if they’re looking for this or that. We can get a pre-qualification interview that interviews them in case they want to qualify for a loan or an attorney wants to, let’s say they’re talking to a personal injury attorney and they want to pre-qualify them to take their case, whatever it is, forms are a thing of the past thanks to AI right now.

WAYNE BROWN: Right. It is certainly moving at a rapid pace. One of the things, Brett, that used to be a problem, I don’t know if it still is, but the whole premise of hallucinating AIs or giving some form of a generic answer, when you’re training the avatar, how do you ensure that you give sufficient details that it can respond properly?

BRETT DUNCAN: Well, what we start with is, for example, in the mortgage industry, which we’re going into first, we know everything there is to know about loans and mortgages, you can go to the five top mortgage websites and get that data, if you will. And you take that and you put that in knowledge base number one. Knowledge base number two would be the actual company itself; how long have they been in business? What’s their success rate? So on and so forth. The mission statement, all about us, that kind of thing. The third knowledge base is the sales, because we train Tess on how to sell, how to find out what the problem is, how to say, okay, I appreciate you have this problem, here’s the best recommendation I would recommend for you.

[00:15:00] 

BRETT DUNCAN: And if there’s any resistance, she goes in and says, well… she knows how to go around, if you will, objections and then say, if we could do this for you, as we’ve done with our customers, would you be interested in our free consultation? Or would you be interested in this? Would you be interested in that? Let’s say they say, yes, great. Well, then she says, well, let me get your first name first and your email. And so, she just gets the information. There’s no, let’s look for the form button and start typing on your smartphone, that kind of thing. Yeah.

WAYNE BROWN: What has been some of the most surprising stuff that you’ve learned as you’ve been developing this, has anything really surprised you about the capabilities?

BRETT DUNCAN: Oh, I was surprised when Amazon came out with their Alexa, I was blown away. I said, oh, wow, I had to have it. I didn’t actually buy theirs, I went out and bought a remake and I still have it. Alexa, what time is it?

ALEXA: It’s 4:25 PM.

BRETT DUNCAN: See there? See how easy that was? I can have her turn on lights, I can have her turn off lights, I can have her do anything in the room. That’s when I first got introduced to AI and then it started being available on the internet and I’ve been seeing what its capabilities are and what you just saw was an avatar, that’s new technology that we’ve integrated with our technology. So, what surprised me most is her ability to have a conversation, a real conversation, not a robotic one, but she listens and she reacts to what she hears and it’s not anything that a human wouldn’t say. In fact, the more you train them, the better your knowledge base is, the better she’s going to perform for you. And the sales knowledge base, she knows how to get around objections, she knows how to keep going back to what the sale is. And that is if a mortgage company wants pre-qualified leads coming through their pike and they want it to be in a pre-interview of a pre-qualification, she’ll do that, if they want an email, she’ll do that, if they want a call, well, let me get somebody on the line for you that can help you, I can’t answer. So, she knows how to get there, she’s pre-trained. So, the more you train her, the better she is. And so, I’ve learned how to do that in the last year, year and a half, how to really put together a very efficient knowledge base that bots can relate to, if you will.

WAYNE BROWN: So, she’s really qualifying the lead rather than just providing an answer, is what came across.

BRETT DUNCAN: Right. And let’s compare it to a typical chatbot, besides the texting roadblock, typical chatbots, they’ll answer your question, is there anything else I can help you with? And that’s what they leave you with. They don’t go to the next step and say, well… not to say that there’s no technology out there that would do that, like many chat and other things like that, but we’re separating that with a real live humanoid avatar that is friendly, smiles, blinks, all that. And so, we’re getting as close to a real human as technology will allow today, let’s put it that way.

WAYNE BROWN: I think this is a perfect example of how this whole agentic commerce is evolving. What you’ve created here is a capability to really make this e-commerce something that is almost live, it feels almost like we’re interacting here, we can see Tess on the screen there right now. My first observation, Brett, when you showed me this was, the fact that she is at the center of the screen, the fact that she’s talking to you, I’m immediately drawn to that rather than trying to scan a webpage. So, the webpage is actually grayed out in the background, but you can still see it’s there, but I’m immediately drawn to that avatar in the center of the screen. So, I think you’ve obviously done that intentionally.

BRETT DUNCAN: That’s true, Wayne, yeah, we did do that intentionally. And the reason for that, it’s a thing called bounce rate. Business owners don’t know this, but 80% of all visitors are coming from mobile right now.

[00:20:00]

BRETT DUNCAN: And so, with mobile, you have bandwidth limitations, depending on where they are. Because think about it, you’ve got to load that whole website through the pike, the bandwidth pike. And if you don’t have an efficient website that loads within two, three seconds, you’ve lost half of them right there. And if they don’t like what they see in the first few seconds, you’ve lost them there. So, what she does is she intercepts that attention span. And just like you said, it grabs their attention, you’ve seen right away she’s talking, maybe they might not think their volume is up or whatever, but it says it right there, ‘Meet Tess, your personal AI web guide,’ I think they’re going to get the fact that she’s going to help them whatever they need. But let’s say they don’t want to deal with an avatar, they just want to go to the website, they can just go browsing and then she’ll come up on the page. But if they just click to ‘Get AI Help with Tess’ and boom, there you go. So, what this is going to do, I firmly am confident, it’s going to lower the bounce rate dramatically, it is because people are going to click the button and if they don’t, it’s bottom time, that usually they’ll lose half their audience from bandwidth. So anyway, yeah, that’s the bottom line.

WAYNE BROWN: I think people will be curious at least. So, they’ll either, some people will say, okay, yeah, here’s another bot I’m just browsing, I’ll hit that button. But I think the majority will at least be curious to find out what this is all about.

BRETT DUNCAN: Right.

WAYNE BROWN: Well, what I also like there, Brett, is I can see the client still has the ability to have some branding visible, even though the website is grayed out at the back. So, you still have that bottom of the avatar where you can still put your brand and your logo, sort of thing.

BRETT DUNCAN: Right. And I think that was important because of the fact that I don’t want to take away from the brand, I want to enhance the brand. She’s the assistant for the brand and so without that they might not know they came to the right website, you know what I mean? So that’s right there and it’s right by the button. So, they know right away that they’re at the right place. And also, we’ve got this ticker underneath her that says, this is what we can help you with, and it just goes right back, mortgage rates, pre-qualification, first time buyers, yada, yada, yada. So anyway, all that adds to conversion, all that is the bounce buster, if you will. So, anyway.

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah. So, if we click that yellow button, what then shows up?

BRETT DUNCAN: If you click the yellow button, what happens is she’ll come up on the right side. Hi, Tess.

TESS: Hi, Tess. I’m Botemia, your mortgage AI assistant. I’m here to help you with rates, qualification, and finding the right loan program. What would you like to know first?

BRETT DUNCAN: Do you know the latest rates?

TESS: I’d love to share the latest rates with you, Tess. To give you the most accurate and personalized information, I’ll need to know your name and a bit about your financial situation. Could you please share your first name so I can get started?

BRETT DUNCAN: Brett.

TESS: Great to meet you, Brett. Now that I know your name, I can get you the most accurate rate information tailored to your situation. I’ll need just a few quick details about your credit, down payment and loan goals. Would you like to get started with that?

BRETT DUNCAN: Okay. You get the idea. I’m sorry about my phone in the background, but anyway, you get it. She was a little confused in the beginning and I’ll tell you why, this is brand new, this is right off the shelf right now and the knowledge base in the background isn’t dialed in. My original avatar was Botemia and that’s why she said her name was Botemia, and I changed that. So, we haven’t got there yet, but I just wanted to show you this. And that’s why she was a little confused in the beginning, so, anyway. But talking about the knowledge base, it’s really important that the knowledge base has everything that the user needs to know about a loan or… and so anyway, she always starts with the first name and throughout the conversation, she’ll always say, so Brett, what are you looking for in a new home? 

[00:25:00]

BRETT DUNCAN: So, now we’ve taken it up a huge knot because anybody that says a name to somebody, it makes the person feel important. So, now you’re building rapport, that kind of thing. And that’s just one step, but you understand, you get it.

WAYNE BROWN: And I can imagine a lot of people listening today thinking, okay, I’m still not ready to give up this human side of this whole process, which essentially it doesn’t, right? So, what Tess is doing is qualifying the lead for the salesperson to then actually have that qualified, they can go and pursue the potential or the prospect, right? At this stage. Maybe in the future that will change, but at this stage they’re still providing a qualified lead to somebody else to pursue further. Is that right?

BRETT DUNCAN: Right. Yeah, exactly. And that’s the bottom line, Wayne, it’s the bottom line. People spend thousands and thousands of dollars on a website to get it seen. When you’re talking about personal injury, in Orange County where I live, they’re spending two, three, four, $5,000 a month depending on how much they want to compete for that lead. So, why wouldn’t they want a liaison on their website? Would you expect them to have an empty desk if somebody walked in their brick and mortar? I mean, that’s about the same difference. You walk in, nobody is around, you’re going to walk out, that’s basically the same thing. You can’t expect people today, the biggest rule today, you can’t assume that people are going to do what you want them to. Surf around your website and read all about how great you are, or this or that. All websites are built differently, but when it comes to service, what differentiates one, let’s say mortgage company from another, if you don’t read the website, it’s impossible, you don’t know. And if you can’t get people to know what’s going on behind the scenes, you’ve lowered your conversion. What Tess is, is a liaison, she’s the chaperone, she’s the salesperson, service person that’s going to communicate with you and give you all the warms and fuzzies you can’t get from just a website, if you will. 

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah, for sure. And you mentioned before we hit record about the attention span, how it has dropped so dramatically over the last decade, this for me is really that immediate hook that at least gives you the opportunity as the business to take it a step further.

BRETT DUNCAN: Sure, you’re absolutely right. And I’m glad you recognize that because my whole expertise ever since websites were invented was conversion and I knew it from seeing my first website back in ‘95, I go, this is a nothing burger. I’m reading a brochure, what happens to a brochure? It’s in the trash can. So ever since that time, I’ve always wanted to figure out how do we get up the numbers? How do we fix the problem? And believe it or not, even a chatbot will raise conversion. I mean, if you go to Gemini and you say, “how much does a chat bot increase conversion?” They’ll tell you 30% there on Gemini. And that’s pretty huge, if you will. How much will Tess up the conversion, having sales ability, having all the knowledge, knowing how to close a deal, it’s going to blow it away. I’m thinking four or five times the norm with her, I really am, because she knows how to engage people and she knows… everybody goes to a website for a reason, whatever that reason might be. And not everybody is going to be sold right away, but if you know how to work around that and at least get them information, so when they are ready to buy, you made the biggest impact with Tess, that says it all as well. But anyway, it’s all about getting response, getting people to do something, getting people off their cruise, just not wanting to do something that’s outside their comfort level, that sort of thing, yeah.

WAYNE BROWN: A couple of things jump out to me as well, because to the older generation, maybe not so much the Alpha or the Gen Zs, but to the older generation, there’s always this impersonal or robotic feel of dealing with AI or that is one of their fears, if you like.

[00:30:00]

WAYNE BROWN: And I think just looking at Tess here on the screen, it’s a very personable experience, she’s friendly, she has a great smile, she comes across professional. So, I think that immediately would alleviate a lot of that older generation reluctance. And then the second thing that many of us are frightened of is the deep fake, the uncertainty whether somebody is trying to pull the wool over our eyes through using AI and creating something that they’re trying to make us believe is real when it’s not, but I think very clearly hearing you say your personal AI web guide. So, there is no attempt here to hide the fact that we’re dealing with an AI, we’re dealing with the chatbot. So, both of those issues are immediately put to rest, at least that’s how I interpret this.

BRETT DUNCAN: Yeah. And why even try to hide it? I don’t know if you can see her neck or not, Wayne, you can see she’s a robot, let’s face it. But she’s not a bot, she’s not a bot, a bot is different. I think of a bot and I think of a bot icon, like that little robot icon thing, whatever. She’s the next generation of avatar, of web help that’s going to know how to engage and be intelligent enough to make the sale, that’s the whole bottom line. And as far as her hiding anything, she has nothing to hide, she’ll even tell you, I’m your next generation AI bot. If they say, well, what makes you different than a bot? She’ll tell you, she’ll go into it and tell you why she’s different. And just to let you know, we’re coming out with a new, if you will, division of this whole thing. Since she’s going to know the person and be able to email, that’s going to be stored, so if the client decides to use CRM with our product, for example, let’s say that she does a loan with a mortgage assist, just an example, but does a loan with mortgage assist, they send over the paperwork, the loan goes through and the client wants to know how my loan is doing. Well, we have a website that they can go to and she can give them an update on their loan; yes, your loan is 10 days away from being approved or whatever, it will update them on the sales process as a customer service as well, which is huge. That way they don’t have to have people on the phone looking up data and all this kind of stuff. And that’s what a loan agent is for, actually. But if a loan agent is spending more time selling than doing customer service, it’s going to put more money in the pocket of the mortgage company, if you will. 

WAYNE BROWN: What are some of the key measures that businesses should be focused on when they introduce the avatar similar to what you have built here? What are some of the key things they should be focused on to be able to say, okay, this is a great investment, this is what it’s generating.

BRETT DUNCAN: Well, I wrote a book, ‘The Power of AI for Businesses,’ and maybe we should recommend they just download that for free, it’s freeaibook.info. And that will give them a good starting place to understand the potential of AI and how it can adapt to their business. And I think that would be very well said. Did you get that address? Freeaibook.info, there you go. 

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah.

BRETT DUNCAN: And just to answer your question, from my perspective, if they have… there’s different types of businesses, there’s a business owner that’s skeptical and doesn’t want… thinks AI is going to steal their information or whatever the negativity, or their customers won’t adapt to it, for those types, I would recommend looking more into this type of technology. They just need to educate themselves because it’s not a matter… I mean, we’re already into the future right now, we’re already there. So, if they’re not using it, they’re already being left behind. And when it comes to the scope of things, when it comes to how AI can help them save money and get more sales online. 

[00:35:00] 

BRETT DUNCAN: There’s other applications for, let’s say they have a receptionist, and let’s put another scenario up there, if you miss a call on your phone, they say that you’ve lost 70% of those phone calls. If they go to a voicemail, 70% are gone, you just count out 70% of those. Well, you should have an AI, a phone assistant like Botemia that answers your phone and sets an appointment for you. I mean, how hard is that? And that itself will not only increase your business, but let your future customers know that you take care of them and they can always get their questions answered. That’s one of the biggest hurdles for any business, is to convince their prospects that they’re always going to be there to service them, service is number one. And if you like Tess from the beginning and they know that Tess is going to be there to be able to keep them updated, it’s a win-win, it’s what it should be. So, getting back to your question, I know I’m kind of going off a little bit, but businesses just need to educate themselves and to know that AI is the best asset that has come along in the last century for business, honestly.

WAYNE BROWN: For sure, it’s an exciting time, there’s no question. Brett, where can people connect with you to learn more about this and hopefully connect them and this business?

BRETT DUNCAN: Well, the name of the company is Mobile Wise AI, that’s W-I-S-E. So, mobilewiseai.com, they can go there and there’s a little form there, it’s a little form, not a big form and they can ask their question there, or they can go freemobilereport.com and basically what I have put together is a free mobile report website that will allow them to put their website in there to see what the limitations are. We have a 15-scan point to say, what’s your bounce rate, what is missing, all these kinds of things. And Tess will be there and there’ll even be a video and they can set an appointment with me there. So, that’s freemobilereport.com.

WAYNE BROWN: Perfect. Brett, great connecting and really interesting to see this evolve, I know it has been a while since we first connected. Even the evolution that I can see today from where it was a month back… 

BRETT DUNCAN: A month ago, right. 

WAYNE BROWN: Is quite incredible. So, all the best Brett.

BRETT DUNCAN: Thank you, Wayne. I appreciate your time today.

OUTRO: Thank you for joining us on the ET project, a show for executive talent development, until next time, check out our site for free videos, eBooks, webinars, and blogs at ‘coaching4companies.com.’

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