[music]

0:00:04.5 Wayne Brown: Hello, I’m Wayne Brown and welcome to the ET Project. We’re delighted to be delivering this podcast for executive talent all over the world, whom we’re affectionately referring to as team ET. In today’s episode, we have another World Authority in leadership, Dr. Oleg Konovalov. Oleg Konovalov, author of the Vision Code, How to Create and Execute A Compelling Vision for Your business is a thought leader, business educator, consultant, and coach with over 25 years of experience operating businesses and consulting with Fortune 500 companies internationally. Dr. Konovalov, is an opinion columnist for the CEO World Magazine. And after an extensive career in international business, he entered the field of management, education and consulting in 2012. Oleg, is the author of management concepts such as Organizational Typology and the Corporate Culture Pyramid. Marshall Goldsmith has named Oleg, the DaVinci of Visionary Leadership for his work on vision and visionary leadership.

0:01:14.0 WB: Throughout Oleg’s career, he has worked with CEOs, C-suite, and top executives internationally. He has ranked in the world’s top 30 for leadership and his visionary Leadership Coaching certification program is number two on the global gurus list of the world’s top leadership development programs. Aside from the Vision Code, Oleg, has authored multiple internationally acclaimed books such as Leaderology, Corporate Superpower, and Organizational Anatomy. Dr. Konovalov, is an influential and thought-provoking business thinker and is a dynamic and sought after management speaker who’s been recognized by Thinkers50, a Marshall Goldsmith 100 Coaches Organization. So as you can most likely gauge for yourself, we have another very high profile guest joining us. Please ready yourself therefore to listen, absorb, and learn as we discuss strategies for becoming the visionary in a thoroughly enjoyable 45-minute episode titled Visionary Leadership, The Code to Future Success.

0:02:23.6 Speaker 2: Welcome to the ET project, a podcast for those executive talents determined to release their true potential and create an impact. Join our veteran coach and mentor Wayne Brown, as we unpack an exciting future together.

0:02:41.0 WB: Alright. Well, Team ET, today we have an extreme privilege, I have to say, and you heard the intro so, you know, we’re talking to one of the leading gurus of leadership and actual fact his latest book the Vision Code, really gives us some insight towards how we can become better leaders. So I’m not going to go too deep into the introduction, but Oleg, I really wanna say thank you for taking the time to appear on our show, the ET project, sincere gratitude for this appearance and I really look forward to our conversation.

0:03:23.7 Oleg Konovalov: Wayne, thank you so much. I always enjoy our conversation. Thank you.

[laughter]

0:03:30.8 WB: Thank you very much. I always like to start off by asking, do you have any fun facts that you would like to share for our listeners?

0:03:39.1 OK: Leadership is not something to persuade people to be fully exhausted, torturing, you’re not running a bunch of slaves. It’s about having the fun. And you see, I’m into very tough field vision, which is not simple for many people, but one of the things you must enjoy doing what you do and people should get that enjoyment because otherwise what’s the stimulus for them? They wouldn’t respond if they’re not enjoying it. And the fun fact, there are quite actually quite a few, on my program, Visionary Leadership Training program, or coaching certification program, usually people come in with very serious faces and things like that. And the first task I do, I try to offer some kind of an funny ice breaker because we must look… We must be positive, we must be optimistic, because otherwise we can’t create the future being at a negative mood. It’s not about being exceptionally serious, no. Have fun, enjoy it. And yet you got to be careful with all those jokes, which I am not always…

[laughter]

0:05:06.8 OK: But it’s about people are not looking at the fact that enjoying something is more important, rather than being fully focused or something like that. It is important.

0:05:19.8 WB: Very good. I guess, that’s a nice lead into the next question. Is there anything in your world at the moment or in the broader world that’s got you excited?

0:05:32.6 OK: I’ll give you a simple, simple, call it metric, right. As soon as you stop saying to yourself, “Whoa, I have learned something.” That mean you are already not learning. You are already just like, “Oh, I know everything, nothing would surprise me.” “I don’t see any beauties in the world.” “I don’t see the beauties in people.” Together with a colleague of mine, John Spence, we’re exploring this field of vision closer and we working on a new book, Mind-crafting is about how to sync vision strategy in people or develop a true leadership mindset.

0:06:16.0 OK: And our aim was… Initial aim and we still stick to that aim, every chapter should cause that wow moment and vision is so huge. It’s so good. It’s bigger than you, bigger than any organization, bigger than me. Therefore, you’re always amazed and you’re always having that wow effect. And I believe it’s so important because when exploring things, leader is an explorer, an explorer of something that had never been done before, and therefore that wow moment should be always with you.

0:06:52.8 WB: I like that. I like that very much. You have a very distinguished career, a long career and a very broad career, and I’m wondering our listener base are executive talents, and I’m wondering, is there anything that stands out in your career that you think would be of interest to them? A learning coming from your career that you think may be an interest.

0:07:21.8 OK: I would bet on two Cs. First C, curiosity, the second C is courage.

0:07:30.8 WB: Correct.

0:07:31.4 OK: You must be really curious explorer of what’s there. It must be really courageous to think differently. You see, for instance, if someone works for a large corporation, and usually it’s a pattern that you shouldn’t do this, you should follow certain steps or just like more or less your life is fully prescribed with quite a sad ending of not very satisfactory. So it’s not about accepting that nasty gift of assess people fears, but it’s about being courageous and think what you could do better, what you could improve, where I could explore more for myself and so for the world, what I could give access beyond myself. And that is… Those things will push you up. And this is a tremendously interesting journey. It’s not about from eight to five and then some kind of a family obligations. No, it’s exploring, getting people on board and so forth, growing. That’s very interesting. Another thing is, we strongly believe that cats have nine lives, but when you have a vision for whatever you do in your career or in your business or in your life, and you’re creating a vision, every vision of a leader is like a cat with nine lives because every vision gives you a new life. And it puts you up and it gives you that momentum for the growth and so forth. You could create more and more and more.

0:09:20.0 WB: Right. And in your book, and we’ll come to in a moment, you talk about a vision is not a static. You don’t set and forget or set and work towards it. It’s an evolving process that you are ever forever working on it or towards that challenge, right?

0:09:38.4 OK: Oh, yeah. I’ll give you a simple example. This phenomenal nonprofit organization, Junior Achievement, they’re helping 11 million young guys to gain their first profession. And they’re huge. This year they were nominated for a Nobel prize for peace, and they revise their vision or they improve their vision every three years. So they’re having a serious board meetings with… They’re gathering information from all the employees and key stakeholders, how they could improve or how they could elaborate even to the next level. And so they’re helping more and more people every year. If it’s static, it will die because you would reach that level of comfort. “Okay, I have achieved it, all is fine.” And that comfort is like a swamp. It will suck you in and you wouldn’t grow anymore further.

0:10:49.9 WB: It’s so true and so we see it happen all the time, unfortunately, right?

0:10:56.0 OK: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Very easy. Very easy. Therefore, you must have… Your vision is your building platform. You’re building on it more and more and more and more. Vision is exceptionally inspiring because your inspiration allows you to build a vision, but then your greater vision provides you with inspiration to do even more. And so it inspires others around you.

0:11:26.1 WB: Great. And very true. I really love some of the accolades that have been bestowed on you over the period. One of them is that people refer to you as the DaVinci of visionary leadership…

[laughter]

0:11:44.6 WB: And you’ll understand why I like that so much for the listeners, you’ll understand why I like that title so much when we get into looking at the book in a moment. But you’re also, one of the world’s leading thought leaders. You consult, you advise to world leading companies, you coach, you educate C-suite executives. What I’m really curious about is… And [chuckle] I’m always wondering this about people that reach your level. What were the steps, if you were to identify milestones or key steps throughout your life, what were some of the steps that led you to establish this degree of knowledge and expertise in leadership that positioned you to be able to do what you do?

0:12:34.8 OK: Good question. [chuckle] Think, but first you must clearly realize if you’re not happy with something, it’s not about complaining, it’s about finding solution. So I’m not problem solver, I’m a solution finder. And we don’t need an exception and call it grant solution for something ordinary. You must look at something that would make you… Put in all your effort, not something that you could take off a shelf or do on a easy pace. No. If you have challenges and will have, your goals must be much greater than your problems. So you are looking from that standpoint, what I would solve that would be really impactful, really valuable and that’s in case, it’s not about your ego because ego blinds you, it’s about creating a value for others. What would be valuable for people in terms what I do for them?

0:13:38.0 WB: Yes.

0:13:39.0 OK: And that will define your commitment. You must be really good at learning from others. People know much more than books or your assumptions and one of the fun things happened to me a few years ago. I asked one of my contacts who is in that called Super League and I said to him those days, I said, “What do I need to do to get there?” And he said to me, “Hard work.” And I said to myself, what’s his like? I need tips, not that [chuckle] and mortar or something, ’cause some kind of a stuff that they could say hard work. Well, taxi drivers work hard but they’re not Formula One pilots. Okay. Then going all through those things, I have learned it’s about improvement every day. And believe me, a few months ago, someone interviewed me for his book and he asked me the same question, “What do you need to do to get to that level?” And I responded to him, “Hard work.”

[chuckle]

0:14:51.9 OK: And I could read that reaction of that person in exactly the same way as was my reaction years ago. “What is this man talking about? I’m working hard.” Yes. But working hard is one thing, but how do you improve every day is very different. So hard work means improvement. So your outcome is not measured in litres or tons of sweat, it’s about how much energy you have put into it.

0:15:25.9 WB: So it’s the consistent incremental improvements day by day?

0:15:33.1 OK: Yeah.

0:15:34.0 WB: Right. Great. Thank you for the tip. [chuckle] I will re-evaluate what I do as well. As you are working with these companies and with the leaders of these companies, I’m sure you get to see and hear a huge range of challenges that they’re facing. What are some of the greatest challenges you are hearing about at the moment?

0:16:00.3 OK: Today leaders are exceptionally good at defending their status quo, but status quo is more of illusion because in this fast changing world, nothing is more elusive than your status quo. The status quo should be only one thing. And I love the definition of Alan Mulally, leadership is a labor of love. Alan Mulally, is the former CEO of Ford and Boeing. So your status quo is only about how do you love people? It’s not how do… What position you are. So it’s a challenge for many. And another thing is since probably like 50 or 60 years ago, all that corporate world always was keen on a very certain outcomes. Whatever you do should be so certain, whatever you plan should be so certain, but future is uncertain, life is uncertain. So creating a vision is the only certainty in that uncertain world and many people are not grasping, they’re just happy with what they have.

0:17:12.9 OK: And we already mentioned this one of the challenges is mind shift, to get people out of the comfort zone. Most of us, if not all of us, including me. We’re all having the challenge which I called a mind lock. If for instance I would be flying from the UK to Hong Kong of course it would be a jet lag. But if we’ll get back on track and in a matter of days.

0:17:41.9 WB: Yes.

0:17:42.3 OK: But when we’re creating the future as leaders who are traveling in time, in our mindsets and to that future. But the problem is we are thinking too much about the past, little bit about the present and very little about the future. We’re afraid of it. So the challenge is to close that mind lag towards the future, to rid people out of their past, to focus them on the future because future has their answers, the past does not.

0:18:18.3 WB: And you mentioned that in the book, I recall, and you also talk in the book about uncertainty and basically embracing uncertainty instead of fearing it.

0:18:27.8 OK: Thank you.

0:18:28.8 WB: So look, let’s move into the books because you’ve written a number of great books. I’m a student of yours from several years back with Organizational Anatomy, but in the last, I guess almost 10 years now, maybe eight years, you’ve written about five books by my count at least…

[laughter]

0:18:52.7 WB: So about every one and half, two years starting with Hidden Russia then Organizational Anatomy, Corporate Superpower, Leaderology…

0:19:02.2 OK: Leaderology, then The Vision Code and now it’s a new one [coming].

0:19:06.1 WB: Yeah. Very good. I look forward to this one. You said it was Minecraft. I’ll come back to that one. [laughter] So I would love to go a little bit deeper on the most current one which came out in ’21 which is The Vision Code, if that’s okay with you. And I’m an avid reader. I noted one of your comments in the book I think that it’s not only about reading, it’s also about experience. And I fully agree with you. And what I loved about your book was the title of the introduction is called In Search of the Golden Ratio of Vision. And I knew from that moment [laughter] that I was on a journey of discovery with you, looking for the golden ratio and anyone that’s not aware of this term, the golden ratio, you know it… Back to my point about you being called the DaVinci of visionary leadership. DaVinci probably made this term very famous, but he wasn’t the founders of the concept. But anyway, having read the title, I thought, “Wow, here we go. We’re on a journey.” What, I’m curious about is the first question that came to mind is after writing the book, how close do you feel that you came to finding the golden ratio of vision?

0:20:27.1 OK: I’m much further from my starting point, [laughter], but it’s still a lot to explore.

0:20:33.4 WB: Right.

0:20:33.5 OK: And it’s not about, yes, I got closer, but I still have quite a distance. You can’t explore. You see, vision is exceptionally beautiful. You must be artful, yet you must be very precise and pragmatic when you’re creating vision because it’s this huge valuable space for people. Can you say that you could explore it in full, in a matter of human life, no, but you could explore as much as you can.

0:21:08.4 WB: Right.

0:21:09.8 OK: So can we explore the beauty? People are still discussing hidden secrets behind Mona Lisa. They’re still gazing it, that beauty and think, Oh, look at this, look at that. Look at that brush stroke and things like that. Because how it makes for centuries. For centuries.

0:21:34.5 WB: Yes.

0:21:34.8 OK: It’s an incredible… Vision is an incredible planet itself. With its own beauties, with its own rules, and you must explore it. And, well, put it in a simple way. America was discovered by Columbus. Okay. By that time, America was there for millions of years. So he just found a way to it, to be honest. Right? He didn’t invent it. He didn’t create that land.

0:22:11.2 WB: Yes.

0:22:11.8 OK: And it took, again, centuries for people to explore it, to map it properly, and make it really liveable and develop it. So it’s not about me saying, “Yeah, yeah. It was never explored before.” It was there before and people were coming from different angles. Oh yeah. It’s there. Is there. Go in, explore it. But that’s a life journey, not only for me, but for many people who will come after me.

0:22:43.7 WB: Right. But you’re well on the way, [laughter]

0:22:45.4 OK: Oh, yeah.

0:22:47.8 WB: The book opens so many pathways to exploring further, I would suggest so… Your explanation in part goes to my next question, which is around perhaps as an outset trying to define why is vision so important for the success of leadership as well as for organizations?

[chuckle]

0:23:13.9 OK: Oh! Very. If people don’t understand why vision is important, they would never commit themselves. But vision defines our highest purpose in life or in business. Vision defines that, why? You don’t understand why without having a vision, because your life wouldn’t be grounded. Vision is a ladder to success, but it’s not only for the leader himself or herself, but for the entire team. I would use a sport metaphor to get from a second or first league for a team into a premier league. The whole team must have a vision. And of course, it’s, mainly a tool for creating that clear future because you must know what do we want to build? And it’s… Echoes with another reason is if you’re not happy with something, but not just complaining, I don’t like something or whatever, how things is going.

0:24:20.6 OK: It’s not about complaining. It’s about that solution that you will create to make life better or situation better, or context better. Huge charge of it. Of course, it’s a huge uniting force for people because it’s a magnet, it gets people together. So in very pragmatic way, I’ll put that. Companies with a strong vision show 25, 30 times higher capitalization rather than companies with just a great product. Put it in pragmatic way, whatever you like to do. And of course, it’s inspiring. It makes your life inspiring.

0:25:01.4 WB: Inspiration enough, 25% to 30% higher, higher return, I guess you might say. Incredible. Incredible. In the book itself, you not only rely on your own knowledge and research, but you also speak with a number of visionaries. 19 I think there are by count.

0:25:23.1 OK: Yeah.

0:25:23.5 WB: 19 different visionaries. And you leverage from their experience throughout the book. And I personally found that very enlightening and engaging. You take that and you break the development of vision into four stages, and this is the basis of the breakup of the book as well. Right? So the book is broken into these four stages. I wonder if you’d mind speaking a little bit about those four stages and the overall structure of the book.

0:25:53.1 OK: Yeah. The first one, you must be very clear because vision comes when you conscious awareness of a problem you want to solve for a benefit of others, which is its peak, therefore you must be very clear. But how to create that clarity, how to understand what vision is, how to give it a name, how to define that space. So it’s the first, and I think you must grow because as I mentioned, vision is greater than me or you or any organization. Therefore, to lead vision, you must be really strong, otherwise you wouldn’t be able to manage it. So how to grow is a lead. How to make vision pragmatic and how to execute it is critical because without execution, vision is just a dream. And it’ll die like an insect…

0:26:49.4 OK: So very quickly, it’s about how to execute vision because, and it was really important to get all those people on board and learn from them, they are tremendous, but it’s about articulating experience into pragmatic steps and, of course it’s about growing vision, as I mentioned, and growing yourself, what are the traits, how do you think, how do you act as a leader? So this is the more core elements, but it’s came up into CAVIAR model, which is, CAVIAR stands for C for clarity of creation, A ability to grow, V viability or vision or pragmatic side, I, influence, how do you communicate your vision, how do you share your vision and of course, again A, acting or execution and R, revitalizing, make it grow stronger every time, so it’s a practical algorithm. You see, I came from the fishing industry background, I spent years in the fishing industry, I believe in pragmatic things, whatever I do, I often, I believe you found in the book that it’s full of practical tips and the exercises people could apply and they could do something immediately, like next morning, do it.

0:28:15.5 WB: Very much the case, so CAVIAR forms the framework, if you like, for all of the tips and knowledge and sharing that comes out of the book. At the end of stage one the creation, the clarity stage you introduce a acronym called CLICK, C-L-I-C-K, right? And you introduce it in the form of an assessment so that you can monitor your evolution towards becoming a visionary, if I put you on the spot, are you able to explain the CLICK model, please?

0:28:55.6 OK: Yeah. CLICK, C stands for courage, as we’ve discussed already and it’s about, I’m not asking people to jump into a cold water like penguins, but it’s about thinking differently boldly every time, just like pushing your mindset further and further and further. L, it’s very much about learning, what do I learn from people, what do I learn from books, what do I learn from nature and how I put that knowledge into practice, I stands for inner excellence, of course, no one is perfect, even when my wife is not happy about me, for some strange reason, I’m always saying, “Look, I’m not ideal I’m just cool”, so it’s, but it’s about improving all the time because you are leading people, you must be a model for them, not about being ideal, who is ideal?

0:29:57.1 OK: No one, but it’s about improving to serve people better, and in CLICK the second C stands for confidence and credibility, I’m confident when I know that I will deliver my promises regardless of the effort, I will deliver and when people see that confidence, they granted me credibility because they will trust my leadership and CLICK ends up with K, which is a knowledge bank, vision is a sought construct so you need to get knowledge, ideas, feelings, updates from all of your team, so everyone should contribute to it. Vision is a collective understanding how the future would look like and what the value would be for them, and therefore all people must be involved and contribute to it, therefore knowledge bank is critical. It’s purely showing it’s not about you or me, it’s about people, that’s about CLICK.

0:31:09.5 WB: Very good, so if we went full circle back to an earlier conversation we had and a comment you made, it’s the way I would use the assessment of CLICK is to look at the incremental improvements I’m making each day towards each one of those areas, is that how I would apply it?

0:31:30.6 OK: Yeah… I would apply each week.

0:31:32.1 WB: Each week.

0:31:32.8 OK: Because yeah even the Croatians are poor in terms of what have you done or what promises you have delivered or not delivered over the period of last week regardless, whether have you promised to call your mother every day, and you did not, or you promised to your team to do something and you did or did not, so it’s all about those things, we’re humans and paying a robot to deliver your promises every day sometimes it’s impossible, therefore you think, Okay, I haven’t done it today, but tomorrow so.

0:32:13.1 WB: Right, but it’s very important to continually assess and monitor your progress as you’re going through your journey, yeah, great.

0:32:22.4 OK: I would say I have not, is that it takes between two to four months for my clients to get it in for granted, so as soon as you start learning how to improve on this, how to become better, it becomes your normal behavior, you’re changing very much towards that future and so you’re improving and improving and improving, yeah, that’s about it and then you just revising it from time to time and it still gives you clearer idea.

0:32:57.0 WB: And I have to make comment that I love the graphics. They’re very, they’re very basic, but they’re very explanatory at the same time. And they really help paint a clearer picture about what you’re talking about with these different, the different stages, about the different tools, and practical tips that you offer. So the graphic of CAVIAR is very nice just to bring it all together. And so each letter, by the way, has a subset underneath it, right? So it’s not just a one word example, but I’m very conscious of the time, and time is never enough. So, but I would like to touch on at least one or two more of the components in the book. The next one would be around the six criteria of vision. And then I got to the stage where I found you, you actually tricked me, because there’s seven.

[laughter]

0:33:57.4 WB: You added…

0:33:57.5 OK: Oh, yeah.

[laughter]

0:33:58.2 WB: You added communication. So [laughter] again, I wonder if you could speak to those six briefly, but, or the seven I should say. If you could speak to those seven, please.

0:34:09.4 OK: Yes. Vision is not an illusion, therefore it must be very pragmatic and functional. And the first element is stimulus. Stimulus reflects the highest purpose of leadership, acting for people and with people, and for their needs. So it’s in a way, what value is created for people? Stimulus is connected to response. If people see the value for themselves, they will respond immediately. If they don’t see the value, they wouldn’t respond. So stimulus is either there, or not. And of course, it’s about scaling, because it’s not about pouring tons of money into marketing to get into new markets, or something like, it’s about, “How do I add value at every stage of development?” And that would allow scaling.

0:35:04.3 OK: And of course, it’s about spotlight. Who takes responsibility? Who accept, or all that responsibility? It’s not about control, because control is an illusion. It’s about people feel responsible for everything they do. And the magnitude of vision defines the level of your responsibility. And of course, it’s about scanning, because vision is a journey from being smart, to being wise. You are scanning, you are learning about people pain points, about their worries, what needs to be changed, what is good enough for now? So you are scanning environment all the time. You talk to people, you learn from them. It’s critical, because your vision still must be grounded to people, and their needs. And of course, it’s about simplicity. Vision is an elegant sync, elegant syncing about complicated syncs. If it’s not simple, it’s not executable. Forget about it. As you mentioned about graphics, making fancy, complicated graphics would puzzle people.

0:36:17.8 OK: Yeah. They’re simple, but not easy to follow, or easy to do. Okay, put a bit of commitment, but simple, at least for people to understand. And of course, it’s about passion and excitement, because vision is a strong emotion itself, and it adds that emotional power to that pragmatic model. This is where inspiration comes from. Without passion, no inspiration. It just motivation for now. And the seventh element, as you mentioned, it’s actually being good at influencing, or communicating and sharing your vision, because the aim of influence is not to become famous. It’s about making others the co-owners of your vision. And they will contribute to it, because they know that they’re getting the benefits out of this vision. So you could work out this construct and check, “Okay, yes, I truly have a vision, or it’s just a dream.”

0:37:21.4 WB: This forms essentially stage two, right? Where you make your vision stronger and you use these seven criteria along the vision journey to help you make this stronger. And then in stage three, we’ve already spoken about CAVIAR. So CAVIAR is essentially bringing it all together. But…

0:37:43.0 OK: Oh, yeah.

0:37:43.5 WB: It’s really, the vision introduced as a business tool.

0:37:48.4 OK: That was the greatest challenge, because it’s not about me imagining something, but it’s about running quite a few field tests. Talk to people, exercise, just like, so before I put it into the book as recommendation, practical recommendation, it was quite a lot of work done, and thanks to my colleagues, friends, clients who helped me with that.

[laughter]

0:38:17.9 OK: How to make it applicable to… For everyone in the world. And I have Oleg Konovalov Vision Leadership Coaching course, and corporate trainings. And that program is now number two in the world. It’s about making impact. And I have trained people from 35 countries so far. So, and it goes. Again, it’s not a mass product, it’s not tick a box program, which could be scattered across the world. But it’s about people who are really prepared to challenge themself and create that vision.

0:38:51.5 WB: I drew a little picture myself, and printed out a copy of your graphic, and it’s on my wall. So [laughter], I’m constantly reminded of the CAVIAR model now, and it’s extremely enlightening, I have to say, to be able to look at it and to understand the journey, and how to grow that vision, how to be able to execute on that vision, I think it’s a wonderful journey for all leaders, as you say, right? So…

0:39:21.5 OK: It is. It’s so fascinating journey, because you don’t even want to look back. You just say, “Hey, I want more, I want more. I wanna go exploring.”

0:39:31.9 WB: Exactly.

0:39:32.5 OK: It’s about a mind shift, and it’s about hearing that tremendous journey.

0:39:37.8 WB: That is a wonderful segue, I have to say. Oleg, thank you [laughter] as we come towards…

0:39:42.8 OK: Thank you.

0:39:43.9 WB: The end of, the end of our… Time together. I always like to find out what people are working on at the moment that might be of interest in Mindshift, or Minecraft, the book, as you’ve mentioned, obviously, is something that’s consuming some of your time. When would we look for it to be released?

0:40:06.7 OK: I hope that it will be out in the second part of next year, therefore, it’s a bit earlier to talk about it. But it’s pretty much about how to create a true leadership mindset. Because knowing how to do is one thing, but how to think is also critical. Even probably more critical.

0:40:27.2 WB: Right. Well, maybe the two together form the perfect union.

0:40:31.9 OK: Oh, yeah.

0:40:32.6 WB: I look forward to that very much, and maybe we will have to come together again once the book comes out, and unpack…

0:40:39.6 OK: Thank you.

0:40:40.3 WB: Unpack some of the learning.

0:40:40.6 OK: Oh, yeah. Thank you.

0:40:42.9 WB: Where would people go to connect with you, to follow you, to learn from you? Where are the best sites to go to?

0:40:53.7 OK: Oh… They could go on my website, olegkonovalov.com. I’m happy to connect on LinkedIn, and I do respond to all the messages myself. It’s not a chatbot. I do it myself.

0:41:06.5 WB: So LinkedIn, and your website are the two best places? I guess Amazon, any particular…

0:41:12.2 OK: Actually…

0:41:15.0 WB: Location for books?

0:41:15.5 OK: Actually, all those platforms, they have the book. Even colleagues from Malaysia, people bought the book in the bookshop, so it’s just like… And it’s been translated into a couple of languages, and there’s more to come therefore, and it’s available in different formats.

0:41:35.1 WB: Great. Well, we’ll put links in our episode notes for everyone to find anyway. Last question perhaps is, any final words of wisdom for our executive talent listeners to help them on their journey?

0:41:53.3 OK: Oh. Life is not a place we live, but a path we take, and vision is the greatest legacy that we could leave to the next generation, either within our families, or within our companies to the next generation of employees. Therefore, leadership is not about a bottom line. It’s about what outcome, what value we will create for others in a matter of generations.

0:42:25.0 WB: Well, Oleg, it’s been a enlightening and fascinating conversation. I’ve learned a lot myself. I’ve got pages of notes, and I’m sure our listeners likewise. Thank you once again for finding the time in your busy schedule to come and join…

0:42:43.8 OK: Thanks.

0:42:46.4 WB: Our community, the ET project, and team ET. I look forward to being able to keep in contact, and very much looking forward to the book release in the coming 12 months or so. And we’ll connect definitely at that stage. So thank you, and we wish you…

0:42:58.8 OK: Bless you. Thank you very much.

0:43:00.8 WB: We wish you all the very best.

0:43:06.1 Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us on the ET Project, a show for executive talent development. Until next time, check out our site for free videos, eBooks, webinars, and blogs at coaching4companies.com.