WAYNE BROWN: Hello, I’m your host Wayne Brown and welcome to the ET project. We’re delighted to be delivering this podcast for executive talent all over the world, whom we’re affectionately referring to as Team ET. Today we’re flying into our favorite city and country, Barcelona in the north of Spain, and chatting with acclaimed animal photographer, business leader and coach, Alicia Rius. Alicia holds an MA in International Marketing and is a creative entrepreneur that has successfully planned and launched global advertising campaigns for well-known international brands such as Yamaha, Philips, Canon and ING Global. Her experience as a business developer has helped brand growth by establishing new business and partnership opportunities in addition to identifying creative and target marketing strategies. An ICF PCC certified coach, ex-startup COO, creator of The 4Ps Leadership Framework and founder of Hive Leadership and Team Coaching, Alicia is about to release a book titled ‘Lead With Clarity: How New Managers Turn Confusion into Confident Leadership’ and we discuss many of the subjects from the book at length during our conversation. Team, as always, I love the opportunity to dig in with authors and explore the insights and pearls of wisdom that they’ve packed between the covers and this time is no exception. So be assured that there’s truly something for everybody in the conversation ahead.

INTRO: Welcome to the ET project, a podcast for those executive talents determined to release their true potential and create an impact. Join our veteran coach and mentor, Wayne Brown, as we unpack an exciting future together.

WAYNE BROWN: Hello team, and welcome back to this week’s conversation. Here’s a somewhat startling and perhaps surprising reality to get us underway; between 40% and 60% of new managers fail in their role in the first 18 months. Not always because of a lack of talent either, but because they’ve been promoted into a role that demands a completely new identity and often without the support to build it. So today we’re talking about that identity shift; what it means to stop being the expert and start becoming the leader. And Alicia Rius has spent 20 years studying this transition across cultures and across continents and she’s in the process of releasing a new book called ‘Lead With Clarity’ and the book offers us a framework for navigating just that. Alicia, welcome to the ET project, great to have you with us.

ALICIA RIUS: Thanks for having me, Wayne.

WAYNE BROWN: Let’s start with that fact that I just introduced, the 40% to 60% of managers failing. I mean, that’s not a small number, when you hear that sort of thing, what goes through your mind and what does it tell us about how we’re approaching that first step in leadership?

ALICIA RIUS: Well, the first thing that tells me is, well, there’s something wrong here. This is a big number and I think we need to think about the implications of that statistic because behind that number there are real people and behind people there is a lot of consequences that when you don’t address that in a way that it works and it’s sustainable. 

WAYNE BROWN: One of the things that I read somewhere when I was preparing for our conversation was you train the transition from working as an individual contributor across to a leader or a manager as a career change and I’m sure not many people are thinking about it as a career change. Certainly, I doubt that my HR colleagues look at it as a career change, they think of it as a promotion and a step maybe up in the process, but we probably don’t recognize it so much as a career change. 

ALICIA RIUS: Indeed, and I think that’s probably the problem. I don’t think organizations set up their managers for failure, it’s just that they don’t look at it in a way that it should be addressed. So, I think when high performers do… are great at what they do, at their craft, they’re experts in their technical skills, most companies think that, okay, if you’re so great doing this, now I want you leading people who does the same because you know what needs to be done. But in reality, it is what I have in the book, people think it’s kind of the natural path, kind of this going up the hill, but it breaks the pattern, because the person who is doing the job from leading others doing the job are completely different type of works and that’s why I’m addressing it as a career change, and like any career change you need to give that people skills, they need a new mindset and especially a new identity. 

[00:05:00] 

ALICIA RIUS: So, without support, without companies supporting that and understanding that they’re shifting careers, it is very hard that new managers will become good managers and that’s why we have the big stat of 40% to 60% of managers who will fail in the first 18 months. 

WAYNE BROWN: In your own career you worked in Europe of course and as well as the U.S. So, you’ve worked with multicultural teams, you’ve worked with different cultures, what did living and working in those different continents teach you about where the breakdown is starting? Did it sort of highlight something for you as you started to unpack this? 

ALICIA RIUS: You mean if the numbers change or the way it is addressed? 

WAYNE BROWN: The way that it is addressed more so I guess. I mean, the number is the outcome in most cases, right? But where is the breakdown really starting from? 

ALICIA RIUS: I think it’s about how people understand leadership and becoming a manager. Honestly, I didn’t see a big difference in numbers, where I work in the different companies. But what I saw was the same, the same outcome where a person, hey, now this person is promoted to manager, everybody is celebrating, hey, look, a reward. But that is the wrong approach, because… I understand the companies want them to recognize their best people into, okay, now go to the next step, but then they left them there. So, it doesn’t matter. I’ve worked in advertising and I supported leaders in different type of industries and in the end, it is the same. So, I think it’s about how we look at the promotion part more than what happens in different cultures. I don’t think it’s a cultural thing, it can be cultural the way you address it, but what’s happening I don’t think has to do with culture, maybe the culture of a company itself but in general I saw it across everywhere.

WAYNE BROWN: I tend to agree, I mean, I’ve also worked in multiple countries and I see the same issues occurring in all locations. One of the things that I was reminded by in preparing for our conversation and I don’t know if you know this principle but there’s a principle called the ‘Peter principle,’ and it’s essentially talking about how individuals get promoted and they continue to be promoted so long as they’re achieving, and then when they stop achieving they will reach that point of their limit, and that’s where they get stuck. They don’t necessarily get educated, but they’re sort of progressing while they can still progress until they get to this point where they can’t progress any further and that’s where they typically end their career in that level. And I saw that throughout my own career with so many people. You often look at a person, they get promoted and you say, okay, well, they must have some skill set that was identified that would allow them to move that far, but then you see them get stuck in that role. And we often think it’s because they haven’t been supported, which it maybe is, but a lot of it is because they now reached a certain ceiling within their own talent level and to move any further, they need to have something additional. And this whole conversation just reminded me of that principle, so, I just sort of mentioned that because quite often we look at it from different perspectives and we overlook some of the things that we know happen. What I was also interested in, Alicia, was I see you’re a systemics team coach, which I am as well. So, nice to welcome you to the community, it’s definitely an interesting field working with teams and trying to coach teams. I know you’re a photographer or used to be an animal photographer and I’m sure you’ve heard the expressions like, ‘herding cats,’ sometimes, working as a team coach. So, welcome to the profession. Digressing, I apologize for digressing. One of the things you mentioned is that organizations often promote their highest performing individual contributors into the management, whether it’s the best engineer or the top salesperson or whatever, and that’s essentially the Peter principle. What do you think that is? Why do companies who are much smarter than you and I, why do they keep making these same mistakes? What’s the fundamental issue that’s missing for many companies? 

[00:10:00]

ALICIA RIUS: It is a good question. I think, one, it’s by starting with the wrong premise of; why are we promoting people? And I think some companies will promote good, like, high-performers because they need their growing, but I also think they promote them sometimes because they’re trying to fix something that’s broken within the system. It might be a high-performer who is not happy but has been there in the company for many years. It is expensive to fire that person, but that person is… and from the systemic perspective, it is behaving in a way that it is not good for the system but that person is upset about something so he’s going to start becoming toxic, like, in a regular conversation we would call toxic. So, the company what it would do is, hey, let’s put that person somewhere else to keep that person happy. That is a wrong way to approach promotions and that shouldn’t come from feeling guilty or trying to overcompensate for a lack of something else, that is a big problem. Then it’s about, you know, trying to think about if that person, we want to promote that person, why we’re doing this. So, having clarity about why are we doing this, what’s going to be the benefit for the system; and when I say system, I mean for the person himself, for the team, and for the organization. Are we clear about the type of value that we want the person to bring now from that position? Because that’s something that probably we… I talk about that in the book, there is a value shift from doing the work to getting the work done through others. And when that person doesn’t have clarity about what is that value, then again, we have a problem because that person doesn’t know what’s their purpose and they will start behaving in a way that’s very inconsistent, which will damage the person himself, the team and again will escalate and go throughout the person, teams, and the organization. So, I think companies need to really have a clear criteria about why are we promoting people, is it for the right reasons and if it is, how we can support them so it’s not just about, hey, here is a higher paycheck, a new title, go do your thing; that’s not enough. 

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah. 

ALICIA RIUS: And also, thinking about are we doing this because we’re trying to fix something that is not working? But we know that organizations are busy, everything was fast, there is not a lot of time now to sit down and reflect, but probably that’s what we need to start doing because that’s the problem, not having clarity about why are we doing certain things. 

WAYNE BROWN: And we know the ripple effect from that scenario has dire consequences both for the person that was promoted and for the team and normally for the company. Whether it’s for the individual; it leads burnout, it leads to higher stress, because they try and still do what they were doing as well as then manage the team, they become highly anxious because they’re not sure about how to make that transition, how to let go, there are so many factors. 

ALICIA RIUS: It is. 

WAYNE BROWN: You’ve said that identity is the foundation before any leadership skill because skill can be built, it can be educated. What exactly are you meaning by that? 

ALICIA RIUS: I think we first need to understand that what is identity, and identity is our sense of self and normally that comes from the repetition of what we are doing and also how others see us and the way that we perceive ourselves. So, going back to the repetition part, if you’re somebody who are a developer and is doing code, I do code I’m a developer, because that’s the thing I do and therefore it is who I am. Now, the moment that you are taken from that role, of the technical expert, promoted to somebody here, you have to lead a team, you no longer have to do the job, your main role is to get the work done through other, you have to be the enabler. Now, the person that is here, you’re getting ripped off something that makes you, you’re losing part of your identity. So, if I’m not doing the job, who am I? How do I bring value? How replaceable I am. And that creates that identity crisis. So, the instinct of the person is to go back to what feels psychologically safe for them, which is, I’m going to go back doing the work. So, at the moment there’s something that doesn’t work the way they envision, they will take the work, they won’t delegate, or if they delegate then they will fix it themselves. So, they’re swinging back and forth between leading and doing because their new identity hasn’t been built with intention, they are left to figure that out and that is a very delicate place to be. So, that’s why the identity is a foundation, once you know that, you can build on top of that.

[00:15:00]

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah, I think that’s a great point. What quite often happens as well is that the promotion is made but there’s little communication back to the people that they were working with just yesterday. So, there’s little explanation about why I was promoted and now I have a new title and I’m meant to act differently but yesterday I was working side by side with my best friend and now that person has to answer to me and I really don’t feel comfortable about that. I’ve got this new identity but nobody has told me how to be the person that that identity requires. When I was thinking about this, there are several identities that can be played in the same role. For instance, as you’ve mentioned earlier, we’re moving from the expert or the contributor to the enabler. So, there’s my new identity, I’m now an enabler with through my team, not through my own hands-on contribution. The second one that I think is the authority level, so, I now have this title which gives me a new identity; so, it says, I’m Wayne Brown, Team Leader, yesterday I was Wayne Brown, Team Contributor. So, I could get a new identity. And then finally, I still have my own identity, I’m still Wayne Brown, at the end of the day, I’ll still go home, I’ll still meet with my wife, my child, et cetera. So, I still am that individual. So, from the outside looking in, I’m still the same person, but when I have to play out those different identities in the workplace, it doesn’t feel natural, at least not at first, and I think that’s where the hand-holding needs to really take place.

ALICIA RIUS: Yes, because besides the value shift, what you’re talking about is the relationship shift.

WAYNE BROWN: Yes. 

ALICIA RIUS: Because exactly you and I are managing your former peers, and the promotion happened overnight but the transition doesn’t happen overnight, it takes time. And what you’re mentioning is what I mentioned, what I talk about, it is that a recalibration between who you were, who you are now, and who you need to be for your team and for the organization, and that is something that unless you work on it with intention and understanding, okay, where I’m lacking clarity in all these parts and I’m going to look to fill the gaps, then you are adrift. And it is very hard to reconcile all these different identities because suddenly something so important to you at the workplace it’s taken away from you but it hasn’t been explicit, so, again, we go back to assumptions. And assumptions are your worst enemy, things need to be explicit. And sometimes that needs to come from being very intentional about, okay, I’m going do the work, but for that you need to know what’s missing in the first place to be able to fix that. 

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah, exactly. When you work as a coach with some of these people and they’re struggling to make this transition and understand it, what are they actually saying to you? It’s always interesting to hear it from the horse’s mouth, so to speak. When you talk to these young leaders, what are some of the comments that they make? 

ALICIA RIUS: The first one that is very common, it might sound like a cliche but it’s like, I feel like a fraud, and that happens I think to anybody who does something that it requires a stretch of what you’re used to do and they say, I don’t feel like I’m doing it right, I don’t think leadership is supposed to be this way, I don’t know how to talk to my friends, I don’t know if I need to be friendly, if I need to be authoritative, I don’t know how to behave around them, because also the dynamics really change because now you have a title and the title carries weight, depending on what people say around you, what you see, they don’t know exactly how you will act now, so, it takes time for everybody to again understand what’s expected from each other. Other things they say it is about feeling very uncertain about their roles, that’s a big problem, that is a big problem, like, I don’t know what I’m supposed to do, should I delegate? Should I not? Should I say something? Should I not? I don’t know what’s expected from me, like, from my boss and from my team. So, at the end of the day, it goes back to confusion, they feel very confused, and they feel very uncertain about how to behave and that’s what they tell me. 

[00:20:00] 

ALICIA RIUS: Normally, the funny thing is that they don’t say those exact words, it takes time for them. I can see it, but as a coach, I need to make sure that they get to the, ah, okay, that’s what’s going on. When they say that it’s faster to start doing the work into the way that is purposeful and helps them do their best job, they’ll tell you. 

WAYNE BROWN: There’s something you mentioned just a moment ago that triggered an idea on my mind, one of the challenges that I see myself with some of our clients is that it’s almost like they’re going through some grief because in many cases they’ve lost their identity which was they were the expert, they were known as the expert, go to Wayne, he can fix this. Now, Wayne has been promoted and he’s no longer in that role and he probably enjoyed that, people come to him, it felt good, it helped with my ego. So, there’s an element of grief, I believe, that we probably don’t really pay much heed to as well. What’s your thoughts on that?

ALICIA RIUS: Yeah, 100%, the identity grief, and that’s something that people don’t have the words to understand or describe what they’re going through, but I help them put those words. And that is something that I realized when I first became a mother, the identity crisis. And that’s why then throughout all these years working with different type of people I understood, okay, what you’re going through is an identity crisis, you are grieving something because who doesn’t want to be the hero of the day? Who doesn’t want to be recognized for their work? And when you are a technical expert, this means an accumulation of years and years, working on that to become that person, the technical expert. And then when you don’t have that, what is left of you? Because your value it is something as a doer, it’s tangible and it’s visible, but when you become a manager slash leader, the work is more humane and more complex, it’s invisible, the satisfaction comes on the long term. So, during that time unless that you have an understanding of how you can impact other people’s lives and what the invisible is, you feel you have nothing. And operating as a leader from that place of uncertainty and grieving without the space and the support to really navigate that shift, it puts you in a very vulnerable position, you and the team, because if you are confused, you will behave in a way that is not consistent and so will your team. 

WAYNE BROWN: Very true. And then you add into that mix this whole relationship issue where you spoke to a moment ago, the friendship trap, yesterday this was my best friend, today they have to report to me and I have to give them instructions. 

ALICIA RIUS: Yeah.

WAYNE BROWN: How do you help somebody when they suddenly have to hold their best friend accountable? 

ALICIA RIUS: Well, if it’s about… do you want to know about giving feedback maybe or would it be more about how we recalibrate our relationship now that I’m your manager? 

WAYNE BROWN: Well, we’ll come to the feedback, I guess, because that’s going to be a derivative that we have to get to, but let’s start first with the relationship issue. Now, I’m your manager, I have to hold you accountable if you’re not performing to the level that we need you to, I have to talk with you. I mean, it is feedback, but it’s really the feeling that I’m having about having to do it. So, it’s not the feedback per se but it’s the issue I’m having about having to hold that person accountable. 

ALICIA RIUS: Yeah, for me, it wouldn’t start with now I’m your boss, I need to hold you accountable, for me, the first conversation it’s what I call, ‘The Leadership Triangle,’ these are the three key conversations that you have to have when you become a manager and one of them is with your team. And when I say your team, it starts always with one-to-one, where you address the elephant in the room. Because the awkwardness of hey, now, I’m your boss, and I know that on the weekend we’re going to meet for drinks and we’re going to be dancing and maybe we will chill, but on Monday I’m going to be back to being your manager. So, for me, the first conversation is about addressing that moment of hey, now that I’m your manager, I wanted to acknowledge that it might feel weird, how do you feel about that? And then for me the first question is, ask them, what do you need from me for you to do your best job? 

[00:25:00]

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah. 

ALICIA RIUS: So, start by feeling supportive, being supportive of that person, rather than, now, I’m going to be hovering over you, because that’s putting everybody at a defensive. It is about, I’m here for you, and what are the things that from before that I was doing that you want me to keep doing and how can I help you succeed in your role. And that opens a new way of a relationship because now you’re starting from being supportive and understanding that it might be weird for both of you, but hey, it’s addressed, now let’s move forward. And I think that is the kind of conversation that you need to start with rather than, I’m on top of you and you’re below me now, it’s more about, hey, I’m here for you. 

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah, look, I love the approach. What I was visualizing as you were talking was, there’s always going to… well, in many cases, there will be the situation of jealousy or the situation where conflict arises because somebody within the team doesn’t believe that you are better than them and they should have been given the opportunity, not you, et cetera, et cetera. 

ALICIA RIUS: Yeah.

WAYNE BROWN: How do you coach people in that situation?

ALICIA RIUS: It’s funny, there’s two things here, there is the envy part, but also, the people that… you are promoted and now you have to manage people who are older than you, that’s also very weird for many.

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah, sure, for management.

ALICIA RIUS: The first thing that I tell them it is, you have to worry about you, if that person has emotions, they’re responsible of their own emotions. You just can hold the space for them because we’re grown-ups and they have to manage their own big emotions. Now, focus on what you need to do, what are the things that are in your reach to be able to become the leader that you want to be for your team? Yeah, that person might be envious, you can focus on that person’s negative emotion because you want it fixed, you can have maybe a conversation on the side, but again, I’m always, it’s about you now, it’s about your team, and it’s about how you can support them and what are the things that you as a leader need to unlearn from before. Which may be as a friend to friend, you better go into that argument, there’s something wrong with you, I feel you’re acting weird, the conversation shifts and it’s about trying to be like the coach and address the situation in a way that’s more within your control rather than trying to fix or involve the other person. 

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah, very true. Let’s look at the solution that you’ve introduced, and I believe you talk about it in the book, ‘The 4Ps Leadership Framework,’ would you like to introduce that? 

ALICIA RIUS: Yeah, sure. So, ‘The 4Ps Leadership Framework,’ it is a simple system that helps managers to identify and understand where clarity is missing in leadership. So, leadership, for me, falls into four different buckets, it has four dimensions, which is where the 4Ps comes from, the first is personal, people, purpose, and process. So, personal is about yourself leadership, how you lead yourself and the kind of leader that you need to be. People, at the high level, it is about you leading others. Purpose is about leading with purpose and vision. And process is about operational leadership. What are the systems that you’re going to build so the work is sustainable and helps your team to do what they need to do? And these four dimensions are interconnected and that comes from the systemic view, the way you lead yourself will impact the way others work, the way the others work will impact how the organization functions and how culture is created. And at the center you have clarity, that is the main premise. So, when you have clarity about… like, more clarity in each dimension is when you become an effective leader, but most of the time it’s very hard to have clarity everywhere. So, you have to start in one point because otherwise it feels very overwhelming. And ‘The 4Ps Leadership Framework’ it allows you to start somewhere and then tackle one by one and understanding that sometimes just by working on something it will create a ripple effect for the positive. 

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah.

[00:30:00]

ALICIA RIUS: So, it’s not about doing everything at once, it’s about understanding where clarity is missing and where do you need to focus on first so you can become a good manager and leader and take it from there. 

WAYNE BROWN: Is there a starting point of those four? Like, would you recommend starting with personal first or it doesn’t really matter? 

ALICIA RIUS: Although it’s systemic, I always say let’s start with personal. 

WAYNE BROWN: Right. 

ALICIA RIUS: And when I would do the diagnosis, maybe somebody has been in the role, because that’s something that happens too, that 70% of managers have been in the role for a few years and never got training and somehow, they figure out who they are. But otherwise, if you are very clear who you are as a leader, okay, move to something else, maybe the company needs to focus on processes first or people. Otherwise, start with personal but you know where you’re missing clarity and again it’s about starting somewhere. 

WAYNE BROWN: Let’s go a level deeper then, if you don’t mind, with each of the four. First, of all, what is it actually looking at when we talk about personal? 

ALICIA RIUS: The first thing… I mean, you go through the different like questions but I built an identity canvas where you start working on your new identity with intention. We’re talking about values, what are your values? Do you have them clear? How do you want your team feel around you? What are the things that you need to unlearn from your previous role so it doesn’t hinder you as a leader? Because as we were discussing, you have to let go of things, being the expert, the fixer, the hero, and that is hard. But once you start understanding, okay, this is who I want to be, and how I want to make my team feel, then it changes things, because you’re starting to live from a place of confidence, because you have clarity on a paper of the things that you need to do and become to be a good leader. 

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah.

ALICIA RIUS: Do you want to make go to the next P? 

WAYNE BROWN: Carry on. My mind was wandering off while you were talking, visualizing something, just carry on. So, let’s talk about people. 

ALICIA RIUS: Yeah, people, it focuses on team dynamics, it is about how you give feedback for growth, it’s how you foster a space for them to deliver their best work, and it is about you becoming the coach. We’re talking about conflict resolution, having difficult conversations and creating team alliances, having a clear team mission. So, these are all the things that you have to help the team have for them to become a cohesive unit. So, it is not about everybody doing their own thing but working and having an understanding that we are in the same boat and we have to roll on the same direction and that’s when purpose comes in. Purpose is crucial because what helps you besides, yeah, we have a vision that’s where we’re going, it is about creating meaning to their work, it is about what you’re doing, this task is not a random task, this task, it helps to push an objective that help us to get closer to our mission as a team and within the company. And that is key because when people work with purpose, they have a sense of belonging and they have a sense that what they do has meaning beyond just a simple text, it’s about helping the team see the bigger picture, which is you as a leader have to have clear. I was listening to a song that I loved and it says, you need to step out of the frame to see the picture, which is the same, right? But I loved it because that’s what happens, you as a leader need to be outside the frame and your team inside the frame to do the things, but help them see what you’re seeing, otherwise they are lost. And then when we talk about processes, here we’re talking about cadence, meetings, we’re talking about what are the systems that we’re putting in place to make sure our work is supported, the structure, so we have a clear way about how are we making decisions, who owns what, when we’re talking about ownership, tools, software, anything, it’s about how are we getting our work done, we’re having clarity over that. So, these are the 4Ps. But again, always clarity in the middle, because unless you have clarity about what is your purpose, clarity about who owns what, clarity about each one’s roles, clarity about who you are as a leader and clarity about, is this tool, this process, serving us or not, something gets in the way. So, the more clarity you have in each of the dimensions, the better you will function as a leader and the better your team will work. 

[00:35:00]

WAYNE BROWN: For sure, there’s a lot of logic in what you’ve just introduced there. I was thinking if we try and make this deeply practical for a moment for our listeners. Let’s say that we have a new manager, they’ve been in the role just a few months, but they’re already feeling overwhelmed, they’re questioning whether this is what they should be doing or not, what’s the first thing that they should focus on tomorrow morning? 

ALICIA RIUS: The three key conversations that they need to have. So, you’ve been promoted, you’ve been in the role, and probably you didn’t have those conversations, and that happens very often when you are promoted. And either your manager assumed that you know what you need to do because HR gave you a briefing or because somebody thinks that somebody told you what you need to do when you are promoted. And that is something… right away, the first thing, go have the three conversations, the leadership triangle, a conversation with your boss, with your team and with yourself; with your boss about expectations, with your team about, hey, what do you expect from me? And then what do you expect from yourself in this new position. And where you have the expectations overlapping, that is when you have alignment, that’s your starting point. We have the triangle, there is a circle, each one is in a corner and in the circle there is the aligned expectations, and then there is white spaces around it. It’s fine, you won’t have clarity 100% always, but you have more than you just did yesterday, and that’s enough for you to start building on that, the first block. 

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah. When does your book come out? 

ALICIA RIUS: April 28th. 

WAYNE BROWN: What’s the title? 

ALICIA RIUS: The book title is ‘Lead With Clarity: How New Managers Turn Confusion into Confident Leadership.’ 

WAYNE BROWN: What are you hoping that a reader will take out of the book or take away after reading? 

ALICIA RIUS: That they feel understood, that they feel somebody has put words into something I could not articulate. I want them to feel that there is somebody who is tackling leadership, not assuming that you are ready for it, that there is a previous step, which is the identity crisis, the grieving, the loss, and I want them to feel somebody pay attention to that and feel that they have a foundation to… I mean, you read the book on Sunday and you’re ready Monday morning to go back to work with scripts, frameworks, tools, to feel confident that, hey, I got this, it is hard, I was confused, but now I feel less confused, now I know where to start.

WAYNE BROWN: Very nice. Where can people go and find out more about what you’re doing?

ALICIA RIUS: They can go to my website hiveteamcoaching.com, if it’s for the book hiveteamcoaching.com/book. They can also find me on LinkedIn, if you are listening to this, please follow me, let’s connect, I would love to hear your experiences and it’s Alicia Rius. 

WAYNE BROWN: Alicia, very nice to connect with you, all the best for the book release, all the best with the coaching, I’m looking forward to staying in contact. 

ALICIA RIUS: Thank you so much for having me and this opportunity, Wayne. 

OUTRO: Thank you for joining us on the ET project, a show for executive talent development. Until next time, check out our site for free videos, eBooks, webinars, and blogs at coaching4companies.com.

[END OF TRANSCRIPT]