fbpx
Search
Close this search box.
ET Project \ Podcasts

ET-106: From Actor to Business Coach: Leveraging Drama Skills for Executive Success

With Mr. David Roylance

ET-106: A conversation with Mr. David Roylance

and your host Wayne Brown on June 18, 2024

Episode notes: A conversation with Mr. David Roylance

Hello and welcome to the ET Project. I’m your host, Wayne Brown, and as usual, we’re delighted to be delivering this podcast for executive talent all over the world whom we’re affectionately referring to as Team ET. 

And today I’m visiting Beach in the county of Hampshire in southeast England to connect with our guest Mr. David Roylance. David challenges all of us from the outset to think about how many of us feel that we are being paid the level of our worth or value, and how many of us feel like the world’s best kept secrets. He then offers a little reality check by adding that we are all paid to the level of value that others perceive in us. 

So, who is David Roylance? Well, he’s an Amazon bestselling author, award-winning coach and the CEO of two businesses and provides business support to several others. He’s Europe’s number one smasher of the glass ceiling.

His client base are typically women in senior executive roles for large corporates, who find that their strategies that they’ve used to get to where they are now is not helping them get further up the management chain. And what they get from David are the secrets of how your voice and body resonate so you can show up and shine.

Here is an extract from our conversation as we start to get into it…

As a teenager, it wasn’t a love of art, there was a famous bank robber in the US, when he was caught, and they were questioning why do you rob banks? And he said, “Because that’s where the money is.” And so I went to youth theater when I was about 15, because that’s where the girls were at, essentially. And it became I wasn’t particularly sporty at all, and so being able to entertain, being able to do voices, being able to show a skill off in rehearsal or on a stage, was the first time I became aware that women started to be attracted to me. So then I thought, I’m going to stick around here, this is fun. I get to entertain, and people… And then you get the bug of the fact that people will applaud. So Laurence Olivier said, there’s only three reasons that people go into acting. And they are, look at me, look at me, and look at me…

Today’s Guest: MR. DAVID ROYLANCE

In December, 2020, David was recognized as one of the top 40 influencers in the world by the Women in Banking and Finance Group for his assistance in helping women get promoted into the boardroom. His career began as a professional actor and theater director working alongside Notables such as 007, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and the character Sergeant Nicholas Brody of Homeland. While at the drama college, he met his first real mentor, Patsy Rodenburg the world’s number one voice coach who helped him understand the power of voice.

Since that time, David has accrued over 20 years of experience working with FTSE 250 companies, SMEs, entrepreneurs, and charities. Aside from fast tracking women onto boards such as RBS, his teaching skills have allowed executives to double their income within a work of his intervention. He’s also worked with boardroom executives from Barclays, Standard Life, and Coutts. He’s delivered courses for staff at HSBC, Macquarie Bank, Zurich Insurance, American Express, Orange, Vivia, and Turner Entertainment. David identifies three pillars as central to creating impact, posture, voice, and energy. 

Team ET, you may not be ready for it, but I even try my hand at a little piece of Shakespearean theater, this is a fun conversation that explores how the world of drama entwines with the world of business.

Final words from David:

And I come back to what I said about sometimes you have to look at yourself in the mirror and go, do I like what I see? And you go, well, actually I, for me, looking in the mirror and going, actually what I’m presenting to the world isn’t authentically me. But actually why the heck am I not doing that? Because I don’t dislike who I am really. It’s almost like in, Jungian terms, embracing the, what Carl Jung calls the shadow of kind of understanding the wholeness of yourself and understanding what your potential in the world is. If you embrace the wholeness of who you are, it’s really empowering even the not very nice bits. It’s kind of like, because actually, like I said earlier, being far, far too agreeable will make you really resentful. And what’ll happen is the nasty bits of you will come out in a nasty way. Whereas lots of people who are too agreeable. And I’ve just worked with a client who’s a lawyer, and he’s a lovely, lovely bloke. I’ve known him for a good four years. And his reputation within the organization is, David’s such a nice guy. Such a nice guy. Well, nice guys don’t get to make partner…

0:00:02.1 Wayne Brown: Hello, I’m your host, Wayne Brown, and welcome to the ET Project. We’re delighted to be delivering this podcast for executive talent all over the world, whom we are affectionately referring to as team ET. And today I’m visiting Beach in the county of Hampshire in southeast England to connect with our guest Mr. David Roylance. David challenges all of us from the outset to think about how many of us feel that we are being paid the level of our worth or value, and how many of us feel like the world’s best kept secrets. He then offers a little reality check by adding that we are all paid to the level of value that others perceive in us. So who is David Roylance? Well, he’s an Amazon bestselling author, award-winning coach and the CEO of two businesses and provides business support to several others. He’s Europe’s number one smasher of the glass ceiling.

0:00:55.3 WB: His client base are typically women in senior executive roles for large corporates, who find that their strategies that they’ve used to get to where they are now is not helping them get further up the management chain. And what they get from David are the secrets of how your voice and body resonate so you can show up and shine. In December, 2020, David was recognized as one of the top 40 influencers in the world by the Women in Banking and Finance Group for his assistance in helping women get promoted into the boardroom. His career began as a professional actor and theater director working alongside Notables such as 007, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and the character Sergeant Nicholas Brody of Homeland. While at the drama college, he met his first real mentor, Patsy Rodenburg the world’s number one voice coach who helped him understand the power of voice.

0:01:50.8 WB: Since that time, David has accrued over 20 years of experience working with FTSE 250 companies, SMEs, entrepreneurs, and charities. Aside from fast tracking women onto boards such as RBS, his teaching skills have allowed executives to double their income within a work of his intervention. He’s also worked with boardroom executives from Barclays, Standard Life, and Coutts. He’s delivered courses for staff at HSBC, Macquarie Bank, Zurich Insurance, American Express, Orange, Vivia, and Turner Entertainment. David identifies three pillars as central to creating impact, posture, voice, and energy. Team ET, you may not be ready for it, but I even try my hand at a little piece of Shakespearean theater, this is a fun conversation that explores how the world of drama entwines with the world of business. So please join David and me as we discuss executive development techniques as well as David’s book, Be seen, Be Heard, Get Paid What You’re Worth: From Invisible to Superstar.

0:03:00.4 S?: Welcome to the ET project, a podcast for those executive talents determined to release their true potential and create an impact. Join our veteran coach and mentor Wayne Brown as we unpack an exciting future together.

0:03:15.7 WB: Welcome team ET, I’m happy to be here with you once more for this week’s podcast episode of the ET project. Today, I’m sure you’re going to find we’re in for a treat as we connect with Mr. David Roylance, who’s sitting over in Old Blighty, otherwise only for the uninitiated is England. And as you will have heard me introduce, David has a really rich history in acting, and I’m sure if we encourage him sufficiently, he’s probably gonna share a little bit of that period, as well as introduce what he’s currently up to with his training and coaching practices. Of course, what I would say about David is that he’s able to call on that rich experience from the acting, from the drama and everything that he’s practiced for so long and bring that into his business practices with his clients, and I think we’ll hear more about that. One of the things that I’m keen to talk about, David, is I read about your three pillars of impact, posture, voice, and energy.

0:04:19.3 David Roylance: Yes.

0:04:20.9 WB: And if we get the opportunity, I’d like to come back to that a little bit later and…

0:04:24.6 DR: Please, I love talking about it so I can share. And I say that ’cause it’s always the beginning of any client relationship, we always have to start there because those are the three pillars of deciding whether you’ve got some kind of presence or you’ve got some kind of charisma or impact, as you say.

0:04:47.4 WB: Yeah, I have a feeling that we’re gonna have a bit of fun, and this is probably gonna be a very insightful conversation. So David, welcome to the ET project, first of all.

0:04:58.1 DR: Thank you for inviting me. And I’m very pleased to be here and to share with, your audience whatever it is that we are going to talk about today.

0:05:09.2 WB: Yeah. We’ll talk wide and deep I hope. So let’s see where we go with the conversation. In preparation for today, I had to go hunting and dig out some of my high school English drama books, can you believe so?

0:05:26.9 DR: Oh, excellent, what did you find? Where did you look?

0:05:29.9 WB: Well wait for it. I came across Romeo and Juliet, and in a moment of weakness, which I hope I won’t come to regret later, I thought I would share from one of my favorite scenes, which is act two, scene two, I think, where Romeo is talking to Juliet on the balcony or the infamous balcony that’s not actually in Shakespeare’s original script as I understood, so very interesting. Alright, so please, after I finish, feel free to critique, I’ll do the same [0:06:06.9] ____. So it’s gonna be a very short.

0:06:10.7 DR: You’re calling on me as a theater director and…

0:06:13.8 WB: Absolutely. This is my moment in the sun or moment to shine, so it’s very short though, I’m not gonna read much of it. So, “But soft! What light through yonder window breaks, it is the East and Juliet is the sun.”

0:06:33.0 DR: Lovely, beautifully done. So the beauty of Shakespeare is, and I still think of William Shakespeare as being the writer who understood the entirety of the experience of being human, was able to put it down in his plays, in his sonnets. And the study in particular of verse and the way that he uses verse and uses normal talking in different scenes. It’s all about the heart, it’s all about the heartbeat because the iambic pentameter, the five beats of each line is linked to the heartbeat in order that when we use verse, we reveal our emotions because we’re connected to our heart. And when we use normal text, we’re not, we’re much more intellectually based. And so funnily enough, when we get involved in what we’re saying, when we get passionate about what we’re saying, we’re more likely to be connected to our heart and therefore we are more likely to almost accidentally speak in iambic pentameter. Would you like a cup of tea? It’s an iambic pentameter sentence. And so it’s boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, that’s iambic pentameter. But soft! What Like through window breaks.

0:08:29.8 WB: So in other words, you’re trying to be very gentle to me and say, I don’t give up my day job.

[laughter]

0:08:35.5 DR: I’m saying when we are connected to the heart and we are passionate, then something comes, energetically comes across. So it’s almost like Shakespeare’s directing the play from the choices of this bit’s inverse and this bit is not inverse. For instance, I find this extraordinarily kind of modern thinking, but there’s only one character in the whole of Shakespeare who never speaks in verse. And that character is Iago from Othello.

0:09:12.7 WB: Okay, I don’t know…

0:09:16.8 DR: Because…

0:09:17.3 WB: I don’t know it so.

0:09:19.5 DR: So Othello is a story about a Moor, a black man who has leadership in a white community who… And Iago is the man who hates him and has no understanding of why he hates, I hate the Moor, he says several times in the play, of course he brings about his own destruction and at the end of the play when Othello and his wife die and they arrest Iago, and they go, everyone’s going, why now did you do… Why did you do it? And he can’t come up with an explanation, he can’t actually… I hate the Moor and I don’t… He’s unable to articulate and so Shakespeare knew that there’s no kind of emotional articulation for hating somebody because of the color of their skin, back in the 16th century.

0:10:19.6 DR: That’s why I think of Shakespeare as the writer who understood the entirety of the human experience and was able to share it through all the work he did. I’m a great lover of the verse and the rules of the verse and when those rules are broken like ” To be or not to be that is the question. ” Is actually it’s breaking iambic pentameter because it’s 11 beats not the 10, so it’s boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom boom, boom, boom, boom. So it goes, ” To be or not to be that is the question. ” And what it does is it then launches the actor into the rest of that piece that comes with it, so it’s almost like you are completely out of control, which of course the character is completely out of control.

0:11:16.1 DR: To be or not to be, they’re deciding the biggest question of all, shall I carry on living or shall I end it all? And so it’s right that you should play it like that, and if you… So when I hear a lot of modern actors adding in a lot of naturalistic, pausing, ” To be or not to be.” I remember I once in a beautiful town of Montalcino, in Tuscany, I worked with an Italian actor on this very speech and he was wearing a T-shirt that said pump it up, and then he stood on the stage and he went.

[foreign language]

0:12:06.6 DR: And I said, he’s got it right with the t-shirt, ’cause he was busy pumping up the speech rather than actually doing it, do you know what I mean?

0:12:15.4 WB: Yeah, I do.

0:12:15.9 DR: It’s like it’s so simple if you just let the text do the work for you. Now I’m getting back into being an acting teacher. So it’s kind of understanding your own relationship to your heart and letting that dictate how you play it and then it becomes much simpler. I’ve always believed, lots of children, lots of teenagers in particular get to hate Shakespeare because it’s being taught by somebody who doesn’t understand that the moment you speak it simply, it stops being difficult language.

0:12:49.9 WB: Right, right. Yeah, I was probably one of those students that didn’t enjoy it, I have to say but since regret that I didn’t… Do you have a favorite play of Shakespeare? Is there any one that you prefer?

0:13:02.5 DR: I suppose Hamlet is the one that I’ve studied the most. And it’s… I haven’t played it on the stage, but I think it’s the… I think it’s fascinating that Hamlet is a play that people will go and see 20, 30 times just to see how somebody different would do it. I sometimes meet people going I’m a bit of a movie buff, particularly a classic movie buff, and people say, you’re watching a film a second time, why would you do that? And I know that people who love Shakespeare will come and go, oh, David Tennant is doing Hamlet, or Benedict Cumberbatch is doing Hamlet, or Kevin Kline’s doing Hamlet, or whoever it is. They’ll go and see people saying those same words, telling the same story, again and again and again, just to see how those words come out of somebody else, which means it’s not really about the words, it’s about the person who’s saying it.

0:14:12.1 WB: Very true.

0:14:12.4 DR: Which is also true about everything my clients go through whether you’re seeking a vice-presidentship in a company or you’re an entrepreneur trying to get your message out there. Well, your message is probably a similar message to a lot of other people’s messages. And people are going to choose you because of who you are, not about the technicalities of what you’re saying.

0:14:42.7 WB: What you’re saying, yeah. Before we jump into the business side, I’m sure our listeners would probably love to hear a little bit about your backstory. So maybe what got you into acting, what got you out of acting, maybe if you would start there and we’ll build from that.

0:14:58.9 DR: As a teenager, it wasn’t a love of art, there was a famous bank robber in the US, when he was caught, and they were questioning why do you rob banks? And he said, “Because that’s where the money is.” And so I went to youth theater when I was about 15, because that’s where the girls were at, essentially. And it became I wasn’t particularly sporty at all, and so being able to entertain, being able to do voices, being able to show a skill off in rehearsal or on a stage, was the first time I became aware that women started to be attracted to me. So then I thought, I’m going to stick around here, this is fun. I get to entertain, and people… And then you get the bug of the fact that people will applaud. So Laurence Olivier said, there’s only three reasons that people go into acting. And they are, look at me, look at me, and look at me.

0:15:13.7 DR: And there’s certainly some truth in that because typically actors are introverts who mask their introversion through extroversion. Now, actors do it in the form of extroversion by being somebody else. Often if we’re going to go into the psychology of it, actors are actors because they’re not happy with who they are and they actively want to be somebody else. And I know that experience from being at drama school and I went to… And I came down to London in 1990, I was born in Edinburgh. And so I was raised in Scotland and I did a lot of youth theater there, had a great time doing it, and then I applied for drama college and Guildhall School of Music and Drama took me in in the autumn of 1990.

0:17:16.0 DR: And it was major because I was like moving away from home and being in a new city. Guildhall was then, well one of the top three conservatoire trainings in the world. So the level at which I was playing in that space in terms of the expertise that I got was absolutely phenomenal. Now I was there at the same time and with Daniel Craig, Ewan McGregor. So technically I know both James Bond and Obi-Wan Kenobi.

0:18:04.2 WB: Yeah, that’s what I was just going to say for the people that don’t know Daniel Craig by name, 007 for the people that don’t know Ewan McGregor by name, Obi-Wan Kenobi. And then I think you’re also there with Damien Lewis, right?

0:18:18.5 DR: I was indeed. Damien was in my year absolutely, absolutely lovely man. And we were very fond of each other. I used to share a flat with Ewan McGregor for about six months. We had, not a bedsit, but we had a sort of actor’s house in North London together, so it was a great deal of fun. And unlike… A lot of drama schools around the world have a single process that they teach. RADA in London teaches look, move, speak. That’s their system, they teach look, move, speak. And so most drama schools have their own system that they teach, but Guildhall didn’t. Guildhall went we’re going to show you everything. We’re going to show you how they do it in India. We’re going to show you how they do it in Japan, we’re going to show you how they do it in Russia. We’re going to show you how they do it in America. We’re going to show you our own tradition. And it was very much a case of, well, you choose what resonates with you.

0:19:37.3 DR: And for me, I think one of my greatest teacher hero mentors, Patsy Rodenburg who I still say is the world’s number one voice coach. I had a three-year voice training with her. We spent at least two years focusing on the voice and Shakespeare as well, which is why I can talk as I do about Shakespeare and she helped me. In that point, there’s a point in life that happens for a lot of people where you kind of have to stare in the mirror and go, do I like what I see? And then you… Because Drama College kind of takes you apart and then allows you to build yourself back with some control for what you choose to be so that you’ve got flexibility.

0:20:34.9 DR: I call it like… Often if you start a car in first gear, it’s gonna stall. You need to be able to know your where own neutral is to be able to start a car and move it forward with any skill. And many of us aren’t neutral when we’re going through life, which means that we’re betraying ourselves maybe through facial ticks or maybe through posture that shows off a lack of confidence as one walks into a room or maybe not having access to the full range of your voice. So it’s difficult to listen to you. All of these things come from a position of acting of not being neutral. And that limits your potential for being valuable in whatever it is you do.

0:21:36.6 DR: And of course as an actor, if you want to play a part that is not you, then well, you have to be in neutral. Otherwise who you are will… When you see actors and you think, well, they’re always the same. And that’s because they’re not in neutral. They’re just letting their own persona come out. But I’d say if you are not an actor, there’s still a huge amount of value in moving into neutral in order to find out, who do I need to be? What bits of me do I need to develop in order that those who are responsible for paying me, whether that be a boss or clients see the value, see the potential for value, that means that I can make a bigger difference in whatever it is I’m doing.

0:22:28.7 WB: That is a nice [0:22:31.5] ____.

0:22:32.0 DR: Yes. And then I guess I did a lot of time coming out to Drama College. I ran my own theater company, and well I pretty much ran it into the ground because I knew absolutely nothing about money at that point. And in fact, at that point in my life, most actors, apart from the ones who are making money, the majority of actors have the worst mindset around money that I have ever come across. I’d say actors are the only people who would pay money to sit in a theater, to watch someone else play a part that they went up for but didn’t get. And then harrumph for about three hours in the theater audience going, I could have done that. It’s like it’s the only methodology of work where people will work for free in the vague hope that they might get paid at some point later on.

0:23:35.1 DR: So that makes them typically really agreeable. And often if people who are really agreeable, real and far, far too agreeable will do a real slingshot into resentment, they’ll be so agreeable. And then when they don’t get that level of agreeable back from bosses or from the people they’re talking to about their surveys, then they’ll become resentful. It’s like a huge slingshot. It’s like you stretch the elastic band of agreeableness by being so agreeable and so open and so ready that when it doesn’t get returned, you go straight into well screw them.

0:24:30.7 DR: And it’s a terrible place to be. So actually, and the science tells us that women are typically significantly more agreeable than men. And at least 20% more agreeable than men. Which is why, particularly in the corporate world, women are often left resentful by men who are abusing their willingness to do stuff. And that’s a terrible place to be because resentfulness, you can do nothing with in terms of advancing yourself. You have to let go of that.

0:25:09.3 WB: Well that’s a great segue into your business and what you’re doing at the moment. So I wonder if you wouldn’t mind just speaking to the company, speak to Shine International, what is it that you do within that organization? How do you help the people you help?

0:25:31.0 DR: I help people use words to make a huge profit. Now that might be employees in an organization. I was named one of the top 40 for 40, and that was the hashtag that Women in Banking and Finance used. In 2020, they gave me an Award naming me one of the top 40 influencers for women in the banking space globally. So where I have a very good track record is helping women in the banking and finance space get themselves promoted and adding on average with the promotions that these women have achieved 30% to 40% extra in their income yearly.

0:26:20.0 DR: And that’s what we’re aiming at when I’m working with these employees. Now, it’s not exclusively women, but it is predominantly women who come to me and say, David, it’s too hard. I’m stuck. I can’t sleep because of all the reorganizations and I’m watching banks let 12,000 people go and moving offices. And I’m worried that I’m gonna be one of the people they choose or I don’t have visibility in the right space. So I’m very concerned. And we go, okay, let’s change something about that. So we work on lifting their presence and their visibility, and the perception of credibility around them through, one, posture, two, voice, three, energy, so that we’ve got their impact sorted. And then once we got the impact sorted, then we start working on the influence. So I say, impact is about what happens when you’re in the room and influence is about what happens when you’re outside of it.

0:27:37.3 WB: I’m just trying to visualize while you’re talking, David. We see from time to time, we’ll see a drama class on TV and we see people performing strange movements and acting in certain ways. Is that part of this posture you’re talking about?

0:27:58.0 DR: It doesn’t need to be as strange. It is a little left field because people, I think, are much more used to discussing intellectual ideas rather than physical ideas. So, for instance, there are three different levels of energy that any human being can be in at any time. I call them circles of energy that we emanate outwards into the world. And only one of those three circles of energy is a state of presence. Being able to draw other people towards you, having an energy that emanates outwards. Now, because the majority of people don’t know what those three states are, it’s difficult for them to be in a state of presence. So the first circle of energy is the introvert state, and it’s a backwards energy. It’s a towards me energy. It’s where we go when we want to talk to ourselves.

0:29:02.4 DR: And when you’re in that state, it’s almost like it’s the flight aspect of fight or flight. It’s like a desire to be anywhere else but here right now. And I see it all the time at business networking. And then again, 21st Century, because most of us have smartphones, we can be in that first circle and not take any risks of rejection. I’ll just hide on my phone ’cause nobody’s talking to me. And then if I can jump to the third circle of energy, which I call the convincing state, where we’re just too much. We’re just too far out there. We’re just too lakh. We actually repel people. Well, what’s that? We want it too much. This is a real thing with salespeople, particularly salespeople who might not be doing too well at what they’re doing. They become desperate. They have what people call money breath. They try too hard. And what it does is the energy of trying too hard is quite repellent to other people.

0:30:20.1 DR: And in between that, there’s a position which is called second circle. And second circle is the position of presence. So it’s like you have to be present in yourself in order to have presence for others. So you have to have a presence in your own body. It has to be a level of calm in order that your energy can resonate outwards as being someone it’s safe to be with. Oh, they’re chill. They’re relaxed. I’ll be with them. People think that presence and charisma is something magical that people have or they don’t have. And it’s just not true. Anyone, once they can find how to do this, and I’ve worked with a lot of clients, a lot of women who have never, ever been in second circle in their lives, who are constantly either in first or third. Particularly a lot of female entrepreneurs, actually. Kind of da-da-da-da, going here, there, always being like da-da-da-da.

0:31:31.0 DR: And I help them find that second circle. And they’re like, I’ve never been like this in my life. Oh, this is nice. And then if you can approach any of the stuff that’s going on outside of your comfort zone, whilst maintaining that state of presence, then you become charismatic for the people who you are with. And you then end up drawing them in towards you. They choose to come towards you and that energy. And if anyone is in the sales game, or anyone listening is running their own business, this is absolutely the key to any sale that is what people call a high ticket offer. It’s like, not for stuff that’s £10, but if you’re selling something that’s £5,000 or £10,000, I’d say anything over £1,000, people need to feel, I am safe with you. Not, I am safe with your service, or I’m safe with your product. I’m safe with you, and you’re gonna look after me.

0:32:45.4 WB: So for those people that you’re referring to, how do they tell when they’re in that second circle? Like, is there some indicator that they can identify through?

0:33:00.9 DR: Yes. You will be breathing in the stomach and not the chest. That’s the indicator, because if you are breathing in the stomach, it’s a longer, slower breath, and it brings your heart rate down. And your unconscious mind… The hypothalamus the base of the spine is the first bit of the brain to grow in you’re growing as a baby inside your mom’s stomach. And that’s why it has so much power over us. Because it can remember stuff that happened in the womb. Like even, even now, it can remember stuff. We don’t consciously remember it, but it can remember stuff and so it can get triggered and make us scared of things that we have no idea why we’re scared of it. And the only way to undo it is through taking the physical action of releasing your breath. So normally with a client, I’ll do the first session of introducing the idea and getting them into second circle, and then I’ll send them off to see Katya and she’ll move them through the Alexander technique basis until being in that state of presence is their baseline state.

0:34:28.9 DR: It takes four to six weeks of little, but often practice to create a new habit. And so if you show your own body and your own brain, this is how I breathe now, like a little bit, two minutes tops a day for four to six weeks, at the end of that six weeks, your body and your brain will go, this is how I breathe now. And they’ll let go of the old habit. Essentially it’s exactly what I did when I came down to London. And I thought I was terribly interesting, Wayne, but I really wasn’t. I was kind of quite like hunched up and I thought, oh, I’m a troubled poet and putting on this bit of an act that actually was not me in neutral at all.

0:35:24.9 DR: And I come back to what I said about sometimes you have to look at yourself in the mirror and go, do I like what I see? And you go, well, actually I, for me, looking in the mirror and going, actually what I’m presenting to the world isn’t authentically me. But actually why the heck am I not doing that? Because I don’t dislike who I am really. It’s almost like in, Jungian terms, embracing the, what Carl Jung calls

“the shadow of kind of understanding the wholeness of yourself and understanding what your potential in the world is.”

If you embrace the wholeness of who you are, it’s really empowering even the not very nice bits. It’s kind of like, because actually, like I said earlier, being far, far too agreeable will make you really resentful. And what’ll happen is the nasty bits of you will come out in a nasty way. Whereas lots of people who are too agreeable. And I’ve just worked with a client who’s a lawyer, and he’s a lovely, lovely bloke. I’ve known him for a good four years. And his reputation within the organization is, David’s such a nice guy. Such a nice guy. Well, nice guys don’t get to make partner.

0:36:51.7 DR: And so actually, not only is he doing himself as a disservice by having that reputation, he’s doing a disservice for everyone he can serve, but who eventually goes to someone else because he’s the nice guy. Now, the good news is since we started working together, he closed… I got a recording yesterday. I said, I want you to say this on video. He closed a deal that was worth 10 times the investment he made in working with me using, and specifically the techniques that I’d taught him that Wednesday, and he closed it on the Friday. So it’s like you do that consistently… And he said his close rate has gone, has since we started his close rate, and the organization has gone from 30% to 60%.

0:37:45.6 DR: And when you do that, people are going to start noticing, well, there’s a new level of value that you are providing into this organization. So that that’s gonna be reflected in bonuses, that’s gonna be reflected in opportunities, that’s gonna be reflected in how people talk about him when he’s not there. And that, which is what I mean about influence being about what’s happening when you’re not in, who’s talking about you, who’s going, would you know who this would be perfect to take to, Wayne? Oh yeah, Wayne. Yeah. Brilliant idea. Let’s take it to him because we know he’ll be amazing at dealing with this.

0:38:24.8 WB: You have a couple of programs that I saw, one is called the World Class Profit Speaker and the other one is Find Your Personal Power. So do both of those programs incorporate what you’ve just explained?

0:38:39.7 DR: Yes so the personal power, which I now think of it more as sort of toolkit for influencers as in if you and it… The world, world-class profit speaker is very much for people who want to use speaking as a way to make money. So I think of it as profit speaking rather than public speaking. So, public speaking is part of it, and becoming really good at public speaking and being very comfortable on a stage is part of it. Most definitely. But what most people miss out is how do you turn this into money? How do you weave an offer into your signature presentation so that you can move the right people towards you? Now, I work with some of the best closers in stage closes in the world. Kane Minkus is the mentor I mentioned earlier is one of the top five globally. So you can bet I was taking notes when I was working with him. And so what we do is once we created the signature pitch, we then weave the offer in so that you can move the right people in the audience who are ready to buy into a really high qualified, sales call.

0:40:10.9 DR: So I’m not talking about demanding money in the room, but making what I call a soft offer, which is getting people on the phone to you, one-to-one where you can, really quickly move to exchange of money. And, that will happen quickly because of all the work you did on the stage that made that audience member feel safe. Because my goodness, when someone says sure this is my credit card number, they have to feel safe, to be able to give you, 5,000, 13,000, 20,000, 50,000, whatever it is. They have to feel safe to be able to go, right good and are you happy to do that now? Yes. You can get there really quickly if you are authentic and generous on the stage, and you weave in an attractive offer to the people in the room.

0:41:12.1 DR: And when people first come to me and they’re talking about speaking often, their concern is about themselves, and actually once they’ve realized that presenting is almost entirely nothing to do with them, it’s about just being yourself more skillfully on, I call speaking, being yourself more. Because when you’re in front of audiences, the rules of engagement are slightly different, and you have to shift up the energy for the sake of the entirety of the audience. If you’ve got 50 people in the room of over eight, nine different rows, your energy has to reach the back row, so you’re gonna have to shift your energy out and reveal more, be you, more. You can do that authentically and with ease, then what you’re going to do is you’re gonna make that audience feel like this, I’m totally in totally in safe hands here. I can relax, I can listen.

0:42:19.0 DR: I can learn. And, through that you can weave the idea of actually I’d quite like to talk to this chap because I would like some of the outcomes he’s just outlined to me, or she’s just outlined to me. Then you go, well, let’s get on the phone together, it’s a no-brainer to do it then. And so you’ve done all this advanced work and the other thing is, Wayne, imagine if you had 50 of your perfect people to talk to in front of you in a theater who you wanted to move into a closer relationship with you. And, you can do all that in one hour instead of having 50 hour long one-to-ones with people, that’s an enormous leverage of time.

0:43:06.0 WB: You’ve written a bestseller. Is there anything in the pipeline that’s coming out in the next year or two, another program, another book? Do you have anything in mind?

0:43:18.3 DR: Well now I’m working… Now that… My publisher is my business partner, my, publisher, David Gill Cristobal, he beautifully mentored me through the process of writing the book. And writing the book myself, and telling… And the book is called Be Seen, Be Heard, Get paid What You’re Worth and it was like me sharing the whole process, what it would be like to work with me for six months in written form. And then we launched it, and then I said, how about you join me in this company? And how about we offer books to people as well? So, which is why I said at the beginning, I help people use words, both the spoken word and the written word make a huge profit. Now my book has brought me about 90,000 in the past 12 months into the business.

0:44:26.4 DR: So my book has been the greatest business card that I’ve ever had. And so we want to do the same for other people, so I’m not working on a book at the moment, but, I will be soon, what I want to get out there is doing books, doing expert’s books for other people and encouraging them, again, being authentic, to put it all on paper and then create something that brings in hopefully even more than 90 grand to them and their business and show them how to make that happen. We even show people how to get their investment back before the book’s published.

0:45:21.0 DR: So, now that I’m in both the publishing game and the speaking game, Speak to Shine, we’re looking to use books and the speaking game of course, the other thing about the speaking game, of course, is you can create amazing video assets out of everything you do, which then become credibility pieces. And some of my clients have gone, and done TEDx appearances whilst we’re working together. So if you think about, it’s all about creating assets that massively lift your credibility so that there are more people in different rooms going, do you know who we should get in for this? Wayne. Or do you know whoever we’re working with is we want them to make money and to make their money back as quickly as possible.

0:46:21.7 WB: Right. Where can people go and find you? Where can they connect with you?

0:46:28.0 DR: So I have two websites, one is for entrepreneurs and one is for, employees, there’s davidroylance.com, which is for employees and speaktoshine.uk, which is more for the entrepreneurs. I have, recorded last year whilst, I was doing a gig at the University of Glasgow, and I recorded a 25 minute piece on beginning the art of presentation, so it’s a free webinar that I hold on online, it’s speaktoshine.uk/free-webinar. I think it is. I can send you the link for that. It’s half an hour of free coaching, essentially. And if people want that, then they’re very welcome to have it, they have to give us their name and email address, and then they get access to it.

0:47:32.7 DR: And if it’s appropriate, they’re very welcome to spend some time, I’ll give everyone 30 minutes for free on a Zoom call, and it won’t be a sales call, it’ll be a 30 minute coaching piece and if it’s appropriate, we’ll talk about working together, if it’s not appropriate, we won’t talk about working together. So it’s an absolutely no obligation, 30 minutes what’s going on for you? How can I help call. For everyone who wants to make more money, the more generous you are with your energy, the more unlikely you are to make money.

0:48:15.1 WB: David, it’s been a delight. I have to say, I can’t resist, I opened with Romeo, so here’s my best portrayal of Juliet ” Good night. Partying is such sweet sorrow.”

0:48:31.5 DR: Beautiful, thank you, well done.

0:48:36.8 S?: Thank you for joining us on the ET project, a show for executive talent development. Until next time, check out our site for free videos, eBooks, webinars and blogs at coaching4companies.com.

Thank you for contributing to this important research.

Please complete the form and submit this form and
continue to download the survey.