WAYNE BROWN: Hello, I’m your host Wayne Brown and welcome to the ET project. We’re delighted to be delivering this podcast for executive talent all over the world whom we’re affectionately referring to as ‘Team ET.’ Today, we’re back in London and we’re connecting with our guest, Varuschka Nagesar. As Varuschka shares, her journey has been anything but traditional and it’s this diverse tapestry of experiences that fuels her passion for empowering high-achieving individuals, particularly those navigating transformation. Today, we’re chatting with Varuschka about authenticity, values, courage and resilience, all of which she has demonstrated on her journey from South African lawyer to global executive to freedom driven empowerment coach; the journey truly unfolds as a masterclass in reinvention. During our conversation, we dive into the mindset shifts and personal awakens that led Varuschka to pivot away from high-powered roles at Accenture, Google and DHL to become a guide for others navigating major career transitions. The lessons she learned from working across continents helps leaders tap into their true north, that inner compass that guides decisions aligned with values, purpose and fulfilment. Born and raised in the vibrant landscape of South Africa, Varuschka was instilled with a strong sense of fairness and a deep-seated desire to see justice prevail. And it was this innate drive that led her to pursue a legal career earning both her LLB and LLM. This legal direction highlighted an inner misalignment however, and she was drawn to the dynamic world of business and eager to understand how her legal acumen could be leveraged to facilitate meaningful deals and drive positive impact. This curiosity propelled her into the fast-paced corporate arena where she was immersed and thrived on the intricacies of contract negotiation strategy, the art of cultivating strong client relationships and the intellectual challenge of solving complex problems across diverse industries from banking and retail to the cutting edge of consulting, outsourcing and cloud platforms. Team, get yourself ready and prepare for what is truly an eye-opening conversation. 

INTRO: Welcome to the ET project, a podcast for those executive talents determined to release their true potential and create an impact. Join our veteran coach and mentor, Wayne Brown, as we unpack an exciting future together.

WAYNE BROWN: Hello team and welcome to this week’s conversation. Today we’re going to be tackling a challenge that I’m fairly sure most modern leaders face at some point in your career, and that is how to not just survive a setback, but how to use the setback as a catalyst for growth. And I want to take our conversation with our guest’s permission, but take our conversation beyond what’s often expressed as bouncing back, to explore how we can truly bounce forward, learn to bounce forward. And through that, emerge from the challenge with greater clarity, with better strength, and even more authenticity as leaders. So, it’s about, if you like, how we can build our resilience to allow us to lead through our core values, especially when we’re under enormous pressure. Now, we’re fortunate to have our guest with us today, Varuschka Nagesar. Now, I know I didn’t pronounce it 100% right, Varuschka, but I apologize and you can correct me in a moment. But Varuschka is here to guide us through this journey because she does this with her clients on a regular basis. So, we’re blessed to have you with us and to talk about this topic today, I love the discussion around resilience and bouncing forward. So, I’m sure we’re going to have some interesting conversations, an interesting dialogue. Welcome to the ET project.

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: Thanks Wayne. I’m excited to be here and to discuss that topic, which is also very close to my heart. 

WAYNE BROWN: Excellent. You’ve achieved what many would probably see as the pinnacle of success; you became a lawyer, you were working for some elite companies, and then you pivoted. And I’m always interested about the pivots and what triggers that mindset shift, if you like. Perhaps you could step us through a little bit of the journey that led you into law and then what happened last year to bring you to where you are now.

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: Sure. I think one of the most important things is that we can’t connect the dots going forward, we can only connect the dots going backwards.

[00:05:00] 

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: So, if I look through the journey of my career and even deciding to study law in the first place and wanting to become a lawyer was all about wanting to help people, that sense of right and wrong and that sense of fairness and making sure that we operate from a place of greater good, which does sound quite idealistic as any student or young person would and having that belief in humanity and wanting to do all of those good things, but then getting into the working world and getting into life and realizing, okay, there’s a few things that we need to work through and as human beings and as businesses, we have all sorts of challenges and we tend to lose that sometimes. And so, speaking about my own journey is that I knew I didn’t want to be a partner in a law firm or follow that particular track, I wanted to learn about business, I wanted to learn about life and I wanted to acquire all of these skills. So it was that thirst for knowledge and that wanting to learn about the world, learn about people, not just from a legal perspective or a business perspective, but how we operate and how we can use those resources and skills that we have, particularly in businesses because they have an immense amount of resources and great influence and great power so that they can do good. And we in those institutions want to be able to do that and we think we can use those and we can leverage that to be able to make that impact. And so, with that thinking in mind, I went from one corporate to the next because I thought, well, it’s a good brand, they’ve got a lot of global reach, they’ve got the resources and they do some good work and I could go in there and do that good work. The challenge is that as I kept doing that and as I kept moving up and onwards, it was actually a distraction because what I was doing was I was conforming to what I thought was how life was supposed to look and what success is. But at the same time, there was a sense of, but this doesn’t quite feel right, surely there’s more and am I making the impact that I thought I would? So, every time I did a pivot, every time I did a move, it was more about, how do I get there? How do I make that difference? How do I do more? And a very big question, I guess, how do I live my purpose? And that’s really big. But once you get to a point where you’re like, oh, wow, based on someone else’s definition of success, not my own at the time, I looked at my career and I thought, ooh, this is amazing; the title, the company, the corner office, all the things that look amazing on paper, but it just didn’t feel right. And that’s when the pivot came because I had to stop and I almost look at myself and ask those questions: Is this what I want to do for the rest of my life? Is this where I want to be? And can I make a difference if I stay here? And of course, the answer was no.

WAYNE BROWN: Right. As you say, you established this internal disconnect between maybe that grandiose external view of what success looks like against more of a core value or an inner purpose, would that be a fair way to express it?

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: 100%. That’s what it was. It was coming back to the core values and the authenticity because whether you are aware or fully aware of all your core values that you use to filter your decisions daily or you’re not, you’ll get that feeling on the inside that those tiny betrayals or that tiny feeling on the inside that says, “oh, I don’t really like that” or “I’m not really enjoying that,” and it all adds up. And I was listening to an audiobook earlier today that said, those betrayals or that misalignment with who you are as in your authentic self is like death by a thousand cuts, and that’s what it really is, it’s that accumulation of, oh, but this is not aligning. And if you know why, then it’s easier to sort of face yourself and then decide, do I need to do something different? If you don’t know the why, it usually leads to people feeling discomfort, unhappiness or sense of suffering in a way because we just don’t know why do we feel so uncomfortable.

WAYNE BROWN: It can actually be quite terrifying, I find. A lot of our clients express it as a shock horror that they’ve had this epiphany that suddenly they’ve realized there’s a real disconnect from the life they felt they were leading and the life that they suddenly realized they were leading.

[00:10:00]

WAYNE BROWN: And was there a specific catalyst, a moment where you said, “gosh, that’s where I have to draw the line in the sand.”

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: Yeah. Fortunately, you know, life gives you situations, experiences and circumstances that if you didn’t figure out before when it was subtly telling you, it’ll tell you in a much more significant way. 

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah. 

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: And I was fortunate in some ways fortunate that it was the environment that I was in, it was the people, the culture and a few other things that there were too many mismatches for my authentic leadership style, my core values and just who I was becoming because, you know, as we grow and as we experience, we become, I’d like to believe, better versions of ourselves, right? Because if we learn from the experience, we try to improve or we’re constantly evolving, whether you want to call it better or not, but we’re constantly evolving. And I felt that it wasn’t the direction I wanted to go in, which was really important for me because it comes back to that concept you were talking about earlier, it’s that fear and that shock when people realize it. It’s because we do know, I think deep down we do know, but we bury it or we put it aside because growing up we’re taught about what success looks like, what path you should take, and that’s the safer route, albeit it’s coming from a good place, whether our parents are telling us, whether our mentors, school, uni, whatever it is, but we tend to then align it with what we think might be good for us or what feels right or what our intuition is telling us, I could follow that path. Look, some people could have a whole career, they could be a doctor and be a comedian on the side, people have done that. But if it feeds your soul, then it works, so you can do both. But often enough, I think because people are not allowed to have that freedom of thought and freedom of exploration, we bury it and then one day we get that epiphany or that shock and we don’t know what to do with it because they’re like, “well, I can’t go back and do that, can I?” Well, can you? That’s the question you ask.

WAYNE BROWN: That’s right. In your case, how much courage did you have to summon to actually make the step and consider, okay, this is it, I’m actually going to step away from all of this corner office, et cetera. 

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: I mean, that is a really pertinent question because I think it was not just courage, it was a lot of other things and I’ll tell you why I say that. It takes an immense amount of courage, right? Because you’re thinking about everyone around you, your family, your loved ones, the impact it’s going to have on them. But at the same time, you’re thinking about why am I doing this and what will happen next? You know, we always need plan A, B, and C. So, being the lawyer that I am and, you know, analyzing things, but also trusting my intuition, I needed to balance all of that. So, it was quite the thought process, but like I said earlier, connecting the dots backwards, it wasn’t just a sudden moment, it wasn’t the, I just woke up one day and decided that it had been building for some time and I had made different changes and different pivots thinking that it would give me what I needed. So, it’s almost like it was building for a long time and then the circumstances presented itself and I thought to myself, hmm, if I was giving a loved one advice about this particular situation, what would I tell them to do? And then I turned around and I thought to myself, well, I’m going to have to take my own advice now. Provided I feel like I’m taken care of once I’ve made that decision, you know, it’s not a rash decision or something that will put me in a difficult position, it was more about, this is logical, this is reasonable, but also, I can no longer be in this environment. And it was more about resilience and the courage, of course, because it does take a lot of courage. But I had reached a point where I was like, no other decision will feel right except moving forward and moving away from this environment. And when I made the decision, I felt so much of relief that I knew it was the right thing to do. Like there was no other decision that would be right, if that makes sense.

[00:15:00]

WAYNE BROWN: Did you consider the impact to your identity? So, we talk a lot about authenticity, but the identity is often overlooked, right? We live in multiple identities, how did that affect you?

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: Absolutely. I think that that comes also with time, because it depends on the circumstance and what you’ve decided to do. When I chose to leave corporate, it wasn’t immediate that I knew what I was going to do next. I literally did take some time out, like a sabbatical, because I’d never done that before. And I thought, I’m going to give myself this gift and the luxury of stepping away from an environment, which I think at the time I needed to just step away from and decide how I want to be in that environment, it wasn’t the way I was when I left. And so, that’s why the identity question came a lot later when I chose my path, which is now doing executive coaching and how I want to help people. Because being a lawyer, again, I wanted to help people, when I went into corporate, I was still trying to help people, but in a different way. And even when I moved from traditional lawyer into corporate lawyer, that too is an identity shift and I struggled with that for a very long time. But I think the biggest struggle was saying, I’m still all of those things and I’m going to use them for the benefit of helping others, but with a different title, role, and part of my identity. And I think it’s something that probably came as a lag in the whole progress of pivoting and changing and I think it’s still something I look at every day because now having done the work and working with a lot of clients, you see that identity is multifaceted, it’s not one thing. I am not my role or my title or my profession, but it is part of who I am. And changing that or adapting that, adding to it, taking away from it, is a different level of understanding, patience, and almost self-love and care, really, because you’ve chosen to do this for yourself.

WAYNE BROWN: Exactly. I was just thinking while you were speaking there that, how do you work with your clients and help them see, looking forward, help them see the road or the best path to travel? 

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: Yeah. So, I think you make a very key point about this need to have resilience because change is coming, whether you like it or not. And I think it’s two parts to answer that question; the first one is making sure that the leaders themselves can appreciate what they bring to the table, what their own challenges are, and how they feel. Often, I see LinkedIn as a platform that I use very often and you’ll see people’s comments about leadership and what’s lacking and what it needs and what’s better for employees, et cetera and I always put a perspective if there’s something that resonates with me. And if I make a comment about it, I put a perspective that says, yeah, that’s great, if we’re talking about leadership needs to be that way, but we are also leaders in whatever role we’re playing. And we need to consider how, whether you’re looking at a leader or you’re a leader, how you feel about that situation and what impact you’re making. Do you even have the luxury to take a step back and look at yourself? You’re busy focusing on bottom lines and making the team work, inspiring, motivating them, is your cup full at the same time, right?

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah.

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: And so that’s a huge part of getting people to even become more resilient and forward-thinking. It’s like, where are you right now? And do you know how to be able to put on your own oxygen mask first before you give? Because when you’re coming from a place of lack, it’s very hard to have forward-thinking and resilience where you’re like, I’m barely making it today.

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah. One of the things that I know we talk a lot about is you don’t get to throw away the skills you’ve acquired and put a lot of effort and blood, sweat and tear into as you make these transitions, you actually leverage them and keep them as your foundation and you build onto and I deal with a lot of clients who don’t have that mindset, they don’t have that understanding. 

[00:20:00]

WAYNE BROWN: If you look at your own situation, when you were moving from the legal fraternity towards coaching, how much did the skills you acquired within the law, within the lead up to becoming a lawyer help you as you now work in your practice?

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: 100%, all transferable. In fact, I think I must have learned the most about human nature, people and their behaviors, how much we have in common as human beings and where we put our barriers, and just all of it is very transferable. In fact, that’s probably where the interest came in and then I realized that this is something that would be valuable and worthwhile and how to then go back and influence the same corporate environment because now I understand how people work in relation to those environments and business itself. So, it’s probably ideal for me. 

WAYNE BROWN: Right. You said once, “success can feel like home when aligned with one’s values.” How do you define success to start with? And then how does that differ from the definition you had when you were climbing the corporate ladder?

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: If I had to use myself as an example, I think what we often do as human beings and when we’re starting out, because when we choose what we study or the career path, often it’s very typical, it’s because it’s the people around us who’ve influenced us, it’s the things we saw. And in some ways, I feel fortunate because when I thought about law and I thought about, I want to help people and this feels right, it was also, obviously, it was the influence of as I was growing up, the people around me, but it seemed like the right thing to do, and so that’s why I did that. But as I grew, as I experienced all the different roles, the different environment, and sort of my thirst for knowledge and learning and experience, I realized that this is all amazing and I’ve learned a lot, I’ve gained a lot, and it was probably exactly where I needed to be at those times in all those different roles. However, there was also that little whisper that was saying, okay, but you need to use this for good or you need to help people and what you’re doing right now is not doing that. You did that and then so that’s how I’d feel the sense of comfort or I’ve reached a point in that particular role and I need to pivot because that voice kept telling me, “oh, you’ve done what you needed to do now, go do the next thing,” I just didn’t know what the next thing was going to be. And so, to answer the question, I think it’s that sense of feeling that that’s the right thing to do along with the data and the information that’s available to me and sort of balancing it out with my intuition and my instincts that says, okay, that’s good for me to do right now, that’s the right thing for me to do. However, once it stopped feeling right or sitting right, that’s where the problem came in because then as it accumulated, there was that sense of emptiness or that, why does this look right, but it doesn’t feel right? And that’s why I talk about coming back to that feeling of home and then to answer your question about success, that becomes your very own definition, it’s a very, very personal. I know people say that, but I didn’t really understand it till I got to this point because part of me said, “oh, but I have all of this. What will people think if I change? It seems like I’m not grateful for what I have and I want more.” But there’s nothing wrong, there’s nothing wrong with that, it wasn’t being ungrateful, it was about, am I serving my purpose? Am I making a difference? So how do I do this in a different way? And I’m very grateful for what I’ve learned and what I’ve done because it absolutely 100% informs what I’m doing now and what I’ll do next, so nothing goes to waste. But my version of success now, very few people are going to understand that around me, other people have done it like yourself, you know what that means. But for my loved ones or friends who are doing other things, it is a challenge. And I don’t explain it in too much detail to them because I know that when it’s time and when people are ready to hold space for you and understand that, they will and if their mindset is not there, they won’t and that’s okay.

[00:25:00] 

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: But yeah, a definition of success is definitely very much a personal one and not about, oh, that looks right and that’s what family and friends, society thinks you should do.

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah, you’ve worked in some, as you’ve mentioned, some high-pressure, I guess, high-profile organizations, I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of variance in the leaders that you’ve worked with and your peers, how do you define resilient when we put it into the context of being a leader?

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: I mean, that’s a good question, how would I define that or how would I look at that? I think it comes down to the people who… and this might actually sound really cliche, but it does make sense, it’s the leaders who had the confidence and the belief in the people around them, aside from themselves, of course, because you see that when they believe in themselves. It’s like that faith that we can do this, even though it seems difficult and it seems challenging without demanding and controlling, but rather inspiring and motivating. And I think that that goes a long way because whether we, as an example, whether you won the deal or not, you didn’t feel a sense of loss if you didn’t win and if you did win, they would celebrate it. And I think that that’s priceless when it comes to leadership and resilience because it’s not just about get it done at any cost and always win, it’s about how do we work together, leveraging each other, but inspiring people and motivating them when you know things are difficult. To get someone to almost do something that’s, you know, whether the hours are ridiculous or not, but when people follow you and want to do that rather than you’ve controlled them and told them to do that or micromanage, therein lies the difference and it’s priceless because that kind of leadership can progress and move forward and actually positively influence an organization because it almost feels effortless. It’s just their charisma, their confidence, their faith and just how they are being around them is so much easier and better than an environment which feels stifling and coming from a place of control and fear, so that environment also makes a huge difference.

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense. I also feel that we don’t operate in vacuums and therefore resilience as a standalone is admirable, but we also need a well-balanced environment. And listening to some of the words you were using there, there’s an undertone of psychological safety within that environment, and I know you talk about that as a superpower. How do you, first of all, implement an environment to ensure there is that feeling of safety and how do you foster that? Like, how do you maintain it, how do you continue it?

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: Yeah, if I think about it in corporate environments or like the large corporates that I worked in, and like you said, it’s not one person, it’s the entire environment, it’s all the people. So, it starts with the organization, it starts with the values that they live by and it’s not about just writing it down and having lip service, it’s about actually practicing it. And it has to come from all the parts of the organization, so from the top down and at every level. And each individual is responsible for maintaining that culture, one leader or one person cannot do it themselves. And I think that’s really important because I’ve seen both, I’ve seen organizations that believe in it, advocate for it, and live it and they make sure that everyone at every level looks after each other because they say, “we’re all responsible for maintaining psychological safety,” which is true, because we’re not waiting for someone else to give us permission to be able to challenge something and speak out. Provided you do it with a good intention and with respect, because we’re trying to achieve something positive, there’s no problem. But if you’re in an environment where it’s about fear and control, the last thing you want to do is challenge someone because their ego gets bruised and you’re like, “okay, now I’m going to face the repercussions of that.” Right?

[00:30:00]

WAYNE BROWN: The narcissistic ramifications.

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: Yeah. And so, again, that too, even if there’s a leader who is narcissistic or coming from a micromanagement perspective, control, fear, it’s also about the collective. You know, they strengthen, we shouldn’t permit that, we shouldn’t allow that. But the responsibility is also on the organization at the different levels. Let’s say if we were working in an organization together and I came to you and I said, listen, I’m having trouble in this particular department, that particular leader, and I need you to have a conversation with him because you’re his peer, you know, we should be able to do things like that or if someone notices it from a unit or a division outside of it, they go, “listen, I’m seeing this and I think there’s some issues there. I don’t want to overstep. But how do we figure this out? Because that’s not good for those people.” So, it isn’t something that should only be carried by the leader and it isn’t something that’s implemented by one person, it is implemented by the collective. However, it has to be that that environment has been created for it, because if you just say it and you don’t live it, it will never materialize. And if you don’t catch it when there is something wrong and show that you want to fix it and that, okay, hands up, we made a mistake, but we want to fix it, we’ll never be able to cultivate and sustain those types of environments. And people do take steps back, they absolutely do.

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah, there’s the underlying premise that we do have that psychological safety environment already in our organization. Let’s put a scenario in place and say that we’re a leader, we’re in the midst of a crisis, typically, in that point, we’re feeling overwhelmed and our level of resilience is most likely quite the tangent. If you were being brought in as the consultant, the coach to work with the team, what would be the first step that you would take to try and help them regain their footing? 

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: I think it’s always important to identify the problem, identify what’s actually creating that, what’s the root cause, because it might be the simplest of things, even though it looks like it’s something big, but when you actually talk to people and get down to it, it might just be simple things, oh, you know, it’s the deadlines, they’re ridiculous, they don’t ask me and I got to go fetch my kids or I got to be home and all they needed was some flexibility, which is very doable, right? So, it really comes down to if it’s a team and depending on how many people there are, it’s about the dynamic, because sometimes it might not even be the leader, it might just be the circumstances surrounding it or someone above them or where they are, you know, physically, sometimes it doesn’t work to be in the office every day. So, it truly is about understanding where each of those individuals are coming from so that you can bring the dynamic back to a place that’s more cohesive and conducive to them working together and then you build on, ah, so we’ve fixed what the challenges are, how can we do this better moving forward? And depending on where they are and what they’re working on, you know, you might have to do little things at speed or it’s something that you can work on gradually because, again, it comes back to their mindset, right? It’s like, do people see that this is going to work? Because sometimes building brilliance and understanding it, if people don’t come from that thinking and that willingness and that open-mindedness, you’ve got your job cut out for you, right? 

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah.

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: And some might be better than others, so you have to identify the different people you’re working with.

WAYNE BROWN: For sure, for sure. What about for a leader who is constantly on, daily, weekly, how do you help these people?

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: Well, it depends on, you know, what they’re constantly on sort of means for them, you know, is it, am I always trying to push this particular thing, always trying to make the team better, always giving so much. And then again, coming back to what’s actually the challenge? Why are you doing that? What are you trying to achieve? Is that what they need? Because we have to stop and sort of figure out what are we doing? What’s our motivation behind it? What are we trying to achieve? Because sometimes you’re trying to achieve something but that was not what was needed. If we come back to that scenario where you say, trying to take their emotion out of it, let’s say they were trying to get a project done. 

[00:35:00] 

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: And this leader is doing all sorts of things to inspire and motivate, but not paying attention to the little things, which is people just need time to breathe or they need time out or they don’t need to be at the office for a huddle every day because they’re like, let me get on with it, we can huddle every two to three days. Simple solution, right? But the leader is trying so hard and not getting the success because they’re blinded by have to do, do, do, but not stop and listen or think and maybe figure out what they need for themselves as well. It’s like that behavior might be driven by their own leadership, pushing them to do something and if they’re not managing up, then they are managing incorrectly down because they’re sitting in between these two people, or two sets of people struggling and constantly on, constantly thinking, constantly doing. And so, you always have to stop and assess what’s going on and why, what’s the motivation behind it so that we can recalibrate and decide, is that working for me? If not, what do I need next? What do we need to do?

WAYNE BROWN: I was visualizing a number of scenarios while you were speaking about that, that I’ve been in myself and quite often, and I’m guilty as I’m about to say here, we sit in the middle and we actually impede both sides. So, we’re trying to become that central control point under the guidance of, I’m the buffer, but I’m actually becoming the obstacle and we don’t often see that.

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: I always feel like in your scenario, using you as the example, I think we’re so busy thinking that it’s our responsibility to make both sides happy and fix, that we don’t even realize what we’re doing to ourselves, that we’re not functioning at our best for one or the other, and lastly, for ourselves, which serves no good purpose, and we really need to change that. So, working with leaders and thinking about resilience, for me, if you think about the concept of coming back to basics, it’s like, okay, what’s going on for you? Why are you behaving that way? What is it that you think you’re trying to achieve right now and how do we get there in the right way that feels authentic because it’s building on who you are and what you can do. Because no leader can do everything, that’s not the job. But having the confidence to say that and act that way is probably the hardest thing.

WAYNE BROWN: That vulnerability, Brené Brown talked about very well.

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: Yeah, exactly.

WAYNE BROWN: Three words I wanted to put on the table for you to talk to because I’m intrigued by them. You emphasize, I believe anyway, you can correct me, movement, mindfulness, and freedom, how do the three work or am I even correct in saying those three words?

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: Well, those three words are important to me personally, if I think about it, because that’s how I’ve maneuvered this last pivot that I’ve done, it’s because I looked at that, I looked at where I was going and how I would continue to go through that path and whether that sat right with me, that’s the mindfulness part and if I could continue doing it, and what would that give me? And if I continued on that path, it would in some ways take away my freedom of being who I was becoming or who I am, which is who I was becoming anyway. And I think that that was pivotal for me because it helped make the decision more logical, more sensible, and just sit right. And I don’t know if that will make a lot of sense to a lot of people, but that might make some sense to you. 

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah, I can see how that played out. There’s this other word that I often use, which may or may not be around this, is reframing, do you look at reframing techniques yourself or do you incorporate those with the people you work with?

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that’s key because it comes back to, or it goes back to what we were talking about earlier and that definition of success, whether it’s society or external version, someone else’s version of success that I’m living according to or is it my version of success?

[00:40:00] 

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: And so, if we reframed, if we defined, taking success again, if we define what success looks like right now versus what it would look like in future, then that’s very different, right? And so, it really starts to come back to the individual again and what’s important to them, what’s actually driving them, and has anything changed so that they can decide whether, like the words you used, movement, mindfulness, and freedom, any of those, how important is it? Is it interlinked, and to what extent?

WAYNE BROWN: Yeah, it’s a fascinating topic. If there was one core belief about resilience that every leader could take away from our conversation, is there something that you would recommend for them? 

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: You build resilience over time, it’s not something that’s given to you or can be taken away from you, but it’s something that you build. And the journey is not a straight line, and life is messy as well, but when you find that inner strength and that inner power, it’s the thing that will get you through to the next thing. So, learn to believe in yourself, and you will get to the next thing. So, for me, it’s more about self-belief, because that’s an inherent foundational belief in your capabilities. And that, for me, is a good way to then build on your resilience to move forward. So, I would advocate for cultivating and sustaining self-belief.

WAYNE BROWN: Thank you for that. Where can people connect with you? I know you mentioned LinkedIn, is that the best place?

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: Yes. And you can connect with me and reach out to me on my website, which is www.varuschkanagesar.com.

WAYNE BROWN: Okay, perfect, we’ll make sure they all go in the show notes. Well, Varuschka, thank you so much for being on the ET project, enjoyed it immensely, and thank you.

VARUSCHKA NAGESAR: Thank you, I enjoyed that too.

OUTRO: Thank you for joining us on the ET project, a show for executive talent development, until next time, check out our site for free videos, eBooks, webinars, and blogs at ‘coaching4companies.com.’

[END OF TRANSCRIPT]