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ET-105: Overcoming Uncertainty with Effective Scenario Planning Method

With Ms. Ursula Eysin

ET-105: A conversation with Ms. Ursula Eysin

and your host Wayne Brown on June 11, 2024

Episode notes: A conversation with Ms. Ursula Eysin

Hello and welcome to the ET Project. I’m your host, Wayne Brown, and as usual, we’re delighted to be delivering this podcast for executive talent all over the world whom we’re affectionately referring to as Team ET. 

Today I’m visiting Vienna, Austria. Yes, that’s right. The home of Sigmund Freud, Wiener Schnitzel and the Danube. But I’m not here for any of that. Today we’re chatting with our guest, Ms. Ursula Eysin. Ms. Eysin used to work as a production manager, moderator and presenter in theater, opera and TV, before becoming a passionate technology consultant and communication professional. As a signologist, she’s fluent in Mandarin and several other languages.

Here is an extract from our conversation as we start to get into it…

And so they talked to the CIA about that and they told them we have one scenario with different scenarios for Russia. Of course, it was interesting because of the oil. [laughter] And one of this is called the greening of Russia, and if a guy named Gorbachev and his people come to power, there might be a quick change. And the director of the CIA said that’s very funny and it’s really nice that you inform us, but we are the CIA, we are the best intelligence service in the world. We know our stuff and you don’t. We have the data, you don’t. So thank you very much. And of course, [laughter] as history turned out, he had to apologize and then he asked the team at Shell, but how did you do that? I mean, we had the best data, but how could you foresee that? And they said, that’s exactly the point. We didn’t foresee anything, we just had different scenarios and you only had one linear scenario. So we also didn’t think that the greening of Russia would actually be the most probable scenario, but we were prepared for it and this was our big advantage…

Today’s Guest: MS. URSULA EYSIN

Ursula’s broad knowledge and experience enabled her to not only develop new business ideas, but also create the right story, vision and action steps around it. She’s an expert in strategic future process scenario thinking, the creation of new business models, innovation, technology transfer, business development, and strategic communication. 

Besides all of the above, Ursula serves as an expert evaluator with the European Commission, mentors various Austrian and international startups, gives lectures at several universities and writes the monthly column Code Red for the Austrian technology magazine E-media. And she’s recently started a podcast by the same name, Team ET. 

Among the many topics you’ll hear Ursula and I discuss today, we’ll be speaking about a project she was involved on associated with the Kenyan government and four creatively titled scenarios, Roaring Lion, Abandoned Buffalos, White Elephants, and Dying Rhinos.

This is an in-depth discussion around strategic thinking and planning. So please ready yourself as you join Ursula and me with our discussion that forces us to look five, 10 and even 20 years into the future and practice the art of scenario planning.

Final words from Ursula:

We now need courageous business leaders who want to break through barriers. I think the whole world seems to be in a pressure cooker right now. And we stand, so it seems, at the crucial crossroads for both our common future and individual paths. It’s time to shed the illusion of hopelessness and actively shape how we live, how we work together, and how we do business. And I think scenario processes are a very good way to do that…

 

[music]

0:00:05.7 Wayne Brown: Hello, I’m your host, Wayne Brown and welcome to the ET Project. We’re delighted to be delivering this podcast for executive talent all over the world whom we’re affectionately referring to as Team ET. Today I’m visiting Vienna, Austria. Yes, that’s right. The home of Sigmund Freud, Wiener Schnitzel and the Danube. But I’m not here for any of that. Today we’re chatting with our guest, Ms. Ursula Eysin. Ms. Eysin used to work as a production manager, moderator and presenter in theater, opera and TV, before becoming a passionate technology consultant and communication professional. As a signologist, she’s fluent in Mandarin and several other languages.

0:00:47.4 WB: Ursula’s broad knowledge and experience enabled her to not only develop new business ideas, but also create the right story, vision and action steps around it. She’s an expert in strategic future process scenario thinking, the creation of new business models, innovation, technology transfer, business development, and strategic communication. Besides all of the above, Ursula serves as an expert evaluator with the European Commission, mentors various Austrian and international startups, gives lectures at several universities and writes the monthly column Code Red for the Austrian technology magazine E-media. And she’s recently started a podcast by the same name, Team ET. Among the many topics you’ll hear Ursula and I discuss today, we’ll be speaking about a project she was involved on associated with the Kenyan government and four creatively titled scenarios, Roaring Lion, Abandoned Buffalos, White Elephants, and Dying Rhinos.

0:01:51.2 WB: This is an in-depth discussion around strategic thinking and planning. So please ready yourself as you join Ursula and me with our discussion that forces us to look five, 10 and even 20 years into the future and practice the art of scenario planning.

0:02:10.2 Speaker 2: Welcome to the ET Project, a podcast for those executive talents determined to release their true potential and create an impact. Join our veteran coach and mentor Wayne Brown as we unpack an exciting future together.

0:02:26.9 WB: Welcome, Team ET. It’s the 11th of June and we’re closing it on the end of another quarter. Incredible. Some of you may be wondering why I’m stressing the time of year, and if so, then congratulations because as usual, I have a reason. Invariably, as we head towards the end of any fiscal year, you start thinking about the future, preparing budgets, looking at short to medium and even perhaps long term, say five year time horizons and working on your strategy development. I like to call it crystal ball gazing, of course. And for many leaders, this becomes highly stressful due to the increasing uncertainty, the further out that we project with our forecast.

0:03:10.5 WB: So if you fall into this category, and I do have a point here, if you fall into this category, then I’m sure that you are going to love today’s discussion with our guest, Ms. Ursula Eysin. We’re going to delve into the technique first introduced back in the 1940s and then it was later adopted by companies and governments even over the years, the technique is referred to as scenario planning. Ursula, welcome to the ET Project. First of all, I’m really looking forward to our conversation today.

0:03:42.1 Ursula Eysin: Thank you very much for having me, Wayne. It’s really a pleasure and I’m really happy we made it today.

0:03:47.2 WB: Future scenario planning, what is it and where does it stem from?

0:03:52.6 UE: You already mentioned it as many strategy processes. It was invented by the military. It was invented by the US Air Force in the 1940s for strategic planning. But it was adapted for business in the 1960s and ’70s by Royal Dutch Shell, the oil company. And they were very successful with it. They were able to already predict the oil shock in the 1970s before anyone could have thought about it. And the good thing is, of course, it doesn’t help you to predict anything if you are not prepared. And they always think in different scenarios. So they already had plans, so when it really happened, they actually skyrocketed from a rather weak position to the world biggest oil companies, to number two actually, and also in the 1980s, they predicted the fall of the Iron Curtain and they always thought it is their social or their societal responsibility to also inform governments.

0:04:57.4 UE: And so they talked to the CIA about that and they told them we have one scenario with different scenarios for Russia. Of course, it was interesting because of the oil. [laughter] And one of this is called the greening of Russia, and if a guy named Gorbachev and his people come to power, there might be a quick change. And the director of the CIA said that’s very funny and it’s really nice that you inform us, but we are the CIA, we are the best intelligence service in the world. We know our stuff and you don’t. We have the data, you don’t. So thank you very much. And of course, [laughter] as history turned out, he had to apologize and then he asked the team at Shell, but how did you do that? I mean, we had the best data, but how could you foresee that? And they said, that’s exactly the point. We didn’t foresee anything, we just had different scenarios and you only had one linear scenario. So we also didn’t think that the greening of Russia would actually be the most probable scenario, but we were prepared for it and this was our big advantage.

0:06:13.2 WB: I love that introduction. So thank you. Our listeners would love to know a little bit more about you, maybe your background, how you found yourself focusing in this particular field.

0:06:24.8 UE: That’s a very good question, [chuckle] so I’m a technology consultant for over 20 years, but before I went into technology, consulting, politics and strategic communication, I was already in the cultural field. I already had a whole career there because I started work very early at the age of four years. So. [laughter]

0:06:47.1 UE: I have different careers, but I’m really passionate about the technology and how it can advance our lives, not diminish our lives, not diminish nature, not diminish humans. And I not only focus on the future scenario creation, this also has to be a very creative way. And we also help our clients to really bring the future they want to create about, with all our skills, with communication, with creativity, and of course, also with a lot of psychological knowledge. And how did I come to to do that? I had the great advantage to really learn this scenario process 2010 from the former chief of strategy of Royal Dutch Shell, who happens to be an Austrian like myself.

0:07:39.1 UE: My company Red Swan, is based in Vienna, Austria, and he served as the strategic leader for Shell internationally for 25 years. In 2010, he came back to Austria. We met in a business context. And ever since I was fascinated with this methodology, he taught it to me. And we immediately started to develop future scenarios for big Austrian companies, for big governmental organizations, for various federal ministries and also international organizations. And in 2015, I founded my own company, Red Swan, really based on future scenario creation.

0:08:19.7 WB: What I was also fascinated to learn Ursula, is that you’re a signologist, meaning, I guess for those that aren’t familiar with the term, that you speak Chinese and probably other languages as well. Obviously, you’re, you’re Austrian, so you’re gonna be speaking local, but English is another language. So you have multiple languages, but Chinese, one of them. And I was fascinated, how did you come about being able to speak Chinese and I guess understand the culture as well?

0:08:54.4 UE: That was my first major in university. I studied Signology combined with theater media and film sciences. And I spent time in China. I studied at the Academy of Drama and also worked for the Chinese television. And after my studies, when you finish Signology in Austria, you actually are also a translator. You really learn the language well. So I’m a translator for Mandarin Chinese. I don’t speak Cantonese, but yes, I wanted to have a challenge, [laughter] and I also thought that China might be a good economic area in the future, and we will see. But it’s definitely very dynamic and it always remains interesting.

0:09:49.6 WB: I love hearing the story, but I’m probably gonna have a hard time now with my wife when she hears what you’ve just said, because I’ve been based in Shanghai for the past almost 20 years. And I have to say I’m anything but fluent in Mandarin, so.

0:10:05.6 UE: Oh, I don’t believe that. We will test that.

[laughter]

0:10:07.2 WB: I’m probably good with my, with my German, right. [laughter]

[foreign language]

0:10:13.9 UE: Very good. [laughter]

[foreign language]

0:10:17.1 WB: Okay. So if there’s any way that I can consolidate that I am a strategist, I’m a futurist, and I enjoy nothing more than problem solving and decision making, which is about as good as a segue as I can come up with for our topic today, which is future scenario planning. So it has nothing to do with being a signologist or being able to speak Mandarin, but there you go. One of the challenges that I have, so being a strategist and being a futurist, one of the challenges I have with those characteristics is that I’m prone to become a catastrophizer and a doomsday thinker, because I’m always putting a plan in place. I’m always looking to the future. We have this whole geopolitical environment at the moment, which is really doing my head in, and we have this AI technological world that we live in at the moment.

0:11:21.8 WB: So my strategizing and futurizing really lends itself to projecting forward. And I can see a lot of negative scenarios as well as positive ones. I’m wondering, do you find people like me that also tend to fall into this trap, catastrophizing or doomsday analyzing with the people that you deal with, that look at futurized scenarios?

0:11:51.3 UE: The good thing for us is, the bad scenarios for us are the good thing. I’ll explain. Once even I had, we did future scenarios for the Austrian Ministry of Technology for the topic “Next Generation Internet.” And we always developed four different scenarios, and three of them were actually quite negative because for, for technology, you always have to think about a lot of problems before you use it. And actually the guys from the ministry came for me and said, Ursula, why are so many of our scenarios so bad? Said, that’s good, that’s good. Because let me explain. When you, we do not stop with the scenarios in the human nature is like that human psychology, we really need the negative to know or the unwanted to know what we do want instead. And that’s the next step.

0:12:46.4 UE: And also when I do these scenario processes for example, with startups, let’s say they have a very bad scenario in this scenario the clients don’t buy what they have, they don’t have the right to cooperation partners, not the right supply chain, etcetera. They will know immediately what to do when you just point at the very best scenario, you know they’re utopia, everything is fine, you have great investor etcetera. Then ask them, how do you get into this scenario? Nobody knows how to get there. And we had the same phenomenon with these technology scenarios. We have very good specialists there. Some of them are quantum physicists who worked for NASA, for example.

0:13:30.3 UE: And nobody can come up with a solution if you only point at the good scenario. But with the bad scenario, they immediately know, oh, here, we don’t want this, we don’t want that, we don’t want that. So it’s becomes very clear to get into the best case scenario. So we actually use it. And it’s also, in the beginning I thought, come on, how stupid are human beings? Do you always have to have the pain to know what is good for you? But yeah, we can discuss about how stupid that is, but it’s just human nature. And I always say we have to work with human nature not against it. And that’s actually what I love so much about this process.

0:14:12.3 UE: You can dive into that and I also will allow to catastrophize a little bit, but I will not keep you there. I will get the other and say, okay, what’s the opposite of that? Now what’s the opposite? And how can we get there? And what kind of action steps are we willing to take to change for the better?

0:14:34.5 WB: One of the things that I was thinking while I was preparing for our conversation was I can imagine you probably find a lot of leaders that you’re speaking with push back on the idea of this longer term vision, probably using the degree of uncertainty because of technology changes almost as a reason against long-term thinking. And it seems that short-term, linear, compartmentalized thinking, it is somehow more appropriate in many people, I would imagine, or at least in their thinking. Do you find that?

0:15:12.9 UE: Absolutely. And I think that, when you go through this process with the big company, they will immediately see that actually linear and short term thinking is their problem. They know it immediately. But the problem is that all our systems from kindergarten school, university, big corporations, they are all based on linear and compartmentalized thinking. The problem is we will not solve the problems we have now with linear and compartmentalized thinking and short-term thinking. So we really need the long-term thinking. You are absolutely right. A lot of people in the very beginning always say, what, 10 years, 20 years, 50 years in the future? How can we know that? That’s also a mental trick. It’s actually, we, it’s not, we don’t think we have a crystal ball and really can see the future. It’s actually not about, foreseeing the future at all.

0:16:06.8 UE: It’s about this change in perspective, which you already mentioned. So, why do we think so far ahead? People know what they’re going to do in one year because they have their benchmarks and they have the goals they have to reach, but five years even also maybe they know, but 10 years that’s out of the box and 20 years. So it’s a mind trick. It’s not because we think that we really know what could happen. It’s about thinking really out of the box and be really free to think about anything, like the business owner just mentioned she really thought about all options and then actually pivoted her whole business. She would never have done that if we only focused on one year in the future.

0:16:56.5 WB: We spoke earlier about the fact that there’s a number of companies now and, and even governments that have adopted this scenarios approach. And I know one of them you mentioned is Singapore government. So we’ve just opened our doors in Singapore. So I dug into that a little bit deeper to understand what they’re doing.

0:17:17.9 UE: Oh, you did?

0:17:18.5 WB: Yes. And…

0:17:20.3 UE: Quite interesting what they are doing.

0:17:23.0 WB: Absolutely. It is, they have a whole institute set up for policy studies and IPSO think it’s called, and I they’ve not too far back, completed a study on Re-imagining Singapore in 2030. So they were really looking at future challenges and how to do their thinking and planning around that. But they have, that’s just one example. They had, at least on their website, six other projects that they’re working through at the moment. One of those is looking at their aging society and how they’re going to manage those challenges and doing scenarios around that. So they’re really a forward thinking government is my takeaway from that short introduction that I did while I was doing this research.

0:18:16.1 WB: So I know you got involved with several other experts with the Kenyan government and you were together and write a report. I had a look at that and I was also fascinated…

0:18:31.3 UE: Oh, thank you very much.

0:18:32.1 WB: A little bit too deep for me to go all the way through but…

0:18:35.3 UE: It is, it is.

0:18:35.9 WB: At least the introduction area of it really opens my understanding around this whole concept and how it plays out. I wonder, could you briefly introduce that study and that report that you were involved in?

0:18:53.6 UE: Yes, that was a really, really interesting project we did in 2018, I think. It was in Nairobi and it was for Konrad Adenauer Foundation, that’s a German foundation, and they are involved in the, it’s called the Devolution of Kenya, which kind of means the democratization of Kenya, and to kind of deal with the tribalism and how can this be transformed into a democracy. And, there were really high ranking, politicians and organizations involved in that. We did like two and a half days in Nairobi. It was fantastic because I boarded the plane at zero degrees Celsius and snow in Vienna and woke up in at 20 degrees in the jungle in Nairobi. It was just fantastic, like a spa.

0:19:44.0 UE: So it was for them it was winter and rainy time. But for me it was really, really great. So very nice climate. And the whole discussion was really, really good because at this time, at every conference in Europe, people were just so pessimistic when they thought of the future. But in Africa, people do not have much to lose. In Europe, people think it will be bad because the future will be worse than the present. And they lose a lot. In Africa, they hope it will be better than the past. We worked with this group in Africa and they were very optimistic about the future because they think the future will be better than the present. There was even a 70-year-old professor from the University in Nairobi, at the end he said, I love this process because it’s so open. It’s so open. But he himself was so very open. I had professors in Austria when I said, now 40 years in the future, how do you feel? And the guy was like, then I’m dead.

[laughter]

0:20:44.1 UE: Which is, not very constructive, but this guy, he was so excited about the future and to create a better future for the youth of Africa. And so we were diving into the driving forces for this devolution in Kenya. And there are things like, you have to have an enlightened government. I think that’s really a high goal. We don’t even have that somewhere in Europe.

laughter]

0:21:12.4 WB: Yes.

0:21:13.6 UE: And they are working a lot with elders still in Africa because they have a lot of influence and of course, is their economic prosperity, is their wealth in the different counties. And they are very different in Africa. And so we came up with four different scenarios and they were very creative about the names as well. Well. So one is called the Roaring Lion, the Dying Rhino, the White Elephant, and the Thriving Buffalo, I think.

0:21:41.1 UE: And these were different scenarios. And so in one, Kenya would become really a role model for Africa and the devolution in Kenya could show other African countries how to deal with tribalism, how to transform, the whole thing. And the very nice thing for me is I’m still in contact with the colleagues there, they’re still so very happy about that. And they said it still helps them. Unfortunately, some of the bad scenarios came about, but they were already prepared to do something about it. So this is also very good use of the whole process. And when you have a report, they are still using it regularly. They look at it and they look, what did we say we would do if this bad thing happened? And they can change and adapt quickly. So this was a really, actually one of my favorite processes. And it’s still in use like in Singapore also. They use it all the time. And that’s, that is how it should be.

0:22:39.1 WB: Yeah. There’s some great tools that I saw in the report as well. One of them was the impact uncertainty map or metrics. I hadn’t seen that before, but I have now taken that very quickly, and I’m gonna include that in my strategizing in my scenario planning.

0:22:56.8 UE: I’m happy to hear that.

0:22:58.8 WB: Yeah. I really like that simplicity but…

0:23:03.0 UE: Very simple?

0:23:04.3 WB: Yeah, but very tough.

0:23:05.7 UE: It’s actually to find out when we gathered driving forces for a specific topic, we always look at political, societal, economic, regulatory, psychological, driving forces. We gather all of them and then we analyze it in this impact uncertainty map to find out which of them are critical uncertainties of the future. And that’s why we ask how important is that for our topic? And how certain or uncertain is the development of this? Do we already know how this will develop or do we not know? And here also comes, you talked about uncertainty and other people are afraid of that. That’s right. That’s also human nature. Everything is uncertain in life, but we hate it. We love to work with uncertainties and also entrepreneurs, actually, that’s where we thrive because these are our chances. These are all business chances, and you can change something there.

0:24:03.3 UE: If something is already certain, even 10 years in the future, you cannot do much about it. You know, like tax. It’s one of these certainties. So, this is actually, a very useful tool to find out where can I actually act? Do I have some leverage? And I’m so happy you say you love it, because people have different views of that. Some people actually hate to do this exercise, to be honest. So sometimes we skip it or we just do it for them. But it’s very important to find out which of our driving forces are actually uncertain so we can do something about it.

0:24:44.2 WB: There’s so many benefits that I’ve been able to read about and imagine for leaders, for companies, for governments, seeing, are there any key benefits that jump out in your mind for embodying this sort of scenario planning?

0:25:00.4 UE: Yes. I think at the moment the whole world is kind of in a pressure cooker. You just could describe it with a popular Queen song Under Pressure. People are really under pressure everywhere. So actually this methodology, one of the great benefits is, as I already described it, people now are always in this inhale, in this tension. And when you gain clarity, when you really know these are the two main dimensions I should look at, and these are possible scenarios, and now I know what I’m going to do, it’s like an exhale. And I had this, well, I do this for myself as well sometimes. It’s all about decision making, right? And to take a confident decision. And sometimes we are in a situation where you have, business chance and you have kind of a, your gut feeling is not right, but you still think there is some potential.

0:25:54.2 UE: I call this when I, decide to do that, I have a scenario matrix for that. And my two dimensions in this case are trust and potential. And of course, if there’s high trust, high potential, it would of course be a great corporation. And if there’s no trust and no potential, it’s a no brainer to not do it. But there is this, you have…

0:26:19.0 UE: Not so much trust, but you see, still see high potential. And I call this the temptation. And this is where I got myself and that, but I wasn’t aware. This is also one of the great benefits I see in this process. It actually brings subconscious things and subconscious fears to the conscious mind, so we can do something about it because we can’t do anything about it if it’s subconscious. And 95% of things are actually subconscious.

0:26:47.6 WB: Yeah.

0:26:47.9 UE: So I sat down, I had a really bad feeling. It was like, oh, we should, maybe I should, I should join this, this network. And then I analyzed it because it was this big temptation. I trust, I knew it was already lost, but I still saw this potential. And when I went myself through the whole scenario process, I actually find out, wait a minute, they also actually told me there’s no potential. So it changed from the temptation to actually the lost leader. And then it was a no brainer for me to say, oh, I’m very clear. And in the same moment I wrote to them, I decided not to join your business network. Thank you very much for offering it to me. And it was just done. It’s, and then I don’t have to discuss it. I know it was a good decision because it was based on a conscious choice.

0:27:37.0 WB: Yeah.

0:27:37.5 UE: This is also something this methodology brings about, we have a much better life if we take conscious choices and these choices vary for everyone, for someone else, the decision might have been I join it, but for me when I looked at my driving forces and how they presented, were presented to me, it was very clear that my decision is, I will not join this network. And then I felt very good.

0:28:08.4 WB: You have a quote on your website that says something like, the future is uncertain, but you as Red Swan help your clients turn the uncertainty into a competitive advantage. I really like that approach. In your process, you offer a series of steps on how you would start looking at this scenario planning and make it a reality. So if it’s okay with you, we don’t have to go through each step, but would you mind taking us along the journey? And if, imagine I’m one of your clients and we’re having the trouble that we’ve spoken about, how would we go through the process of implementing this whole structure?

0:28:57.0 UE: Oh, absolutely. Let’s do that. So first you need to define a challenge. So which topic do we want to tackle today? So let’s say I’m a business owner and I want to think about the development of my business in 10 years. What am I going to do? Then we look at the driving forces. You already mentioned the past. We look at political, economic, sociological and technological factors and gather them usually on Post-its, I still like to do that. We also had, of course, during Corona, we had a lot of tries during, that digitally based, just not the same. And I also know it’s even better to let the client write it. So when I do it, I actually first I ask different various future questions. The first is if you think 10 years ahead of your business, what, if you could look into the future, if you really had the crystal ball, what would you like to know?

0:29:56.7 UE: Then I let them write it down. If the future unfolded according to your wishes, optimistically, but realistically, how would it look like? And if it unfolded in the wrong direction, what would you be worried about or what would you be afraid of happening? So I let them write it down because that’s very important. To write something down with pen and paper is a completely different cognitive process than typing. And it opens the mind and it opens critical thinking. So first let’s do that. Then we gather it and post it. And next thing is now we want to know which of these critical uncertainties are certain trends, things we cannot change, and which of them are critical uncertainties? We already talked about that. And for this, we have this matrix. I love that you love it.

[laughter]

0:30:46.5 UE: We analyze the importance and the uncertainty of these factors we gathered because, of course, now we have a lot of factors and we need to focus on the ones that are really important. Then usually on the right upper corner we have the critical uncertainties of the future, which might be for business owner, let’s say, say, how is my wellbeing? Is it good or is it bad? And how is my business development? It can be different things. It can be, how do my competitors develop? How do my clients develop? If you want to have it really broad, you can say, my personal life, my business life, and have two dimensions like that. And two dimensions form four different scenarios. And then of course, you will have one where your wellbeing is great, your business development is great, your business world 100X or something, and you have bad scenarios where all of that is not the case.

0:31:46.1 UE: And you, we will start to step into the future, into each and every one of these scenarios. How did this come about? How do you feel in this scenario? What does it look like? What does it feel like? What does your family look like? What does your business look like? Your clients, your competitors? And we gather these stories. So from this, I actually make a whole story for each of these scenarios. And then we name them, like it might be, I mentioned the temptation scenario and things like that you usually should see, might be creative about that.

0:32:23.5 UE: Of course, it can be like, this is my high potential scenario, this is my low potential scenario, this is my wellbeing scenario, this is my family scenario. So you will have different scenarios and really step into them and then come the real, real insights. Like, okay, do I… How do I actually feel? And then we go to find implications. What does that mean for your business now? Because it’s useless to think about the future. If we don’t have any applications for what are we going to do about it now? And as I mentioned, my client really pivoted her whole business. She had like, okay, actually, these type of clients and this kind of business might not be what I’m doing in the long run. This is certainly something I still will do the next year and maybe in two years, but in 10 years, I actually want to shift. So we actually developed a whole plan. How over the next 10 years, she could gradually shift from the clients she has, from the business field she has to another field, but also make the even more money with it. Because of course, you’ll hear all her pleasure would be connected to that. And even she involved her daughters and family and everything in her ideal world. It was really, really beautiful.

0:33:47.6 UE: And next thing is, what kind of action steps do you take now? What does that really, really mean? What do you need? And we also immediately found something like she was, oh, I want to learn more about artificial intelligence and how I can use it to create things, for example, and immediately crafted her next plans, her roadmap to this future she wants to create. But we usually also do let it sit for a while then. And a couple of weeks later, do another reflection on that. Because of course, that’s the first shot. And then I write these stories as nice little stories, and we go over it again, then I might have more questions, we bring even more things from the subconscious mind, and really help the client to create the future they would like to see.

0:34:40.2 WB: It’s highly fascinating. Our listeners can probably tell that I love this topic and the discussion.

0:34:45.0 UE: Oh, I love it too. I’m so happy you share my love for that.

0:34:50.0 WB: I’ve learned so much just listening to you today. So thank you for that. Unfortunately, time’s against us. Where can people go to connect and find the great work that you’re doing?

0:35:03.0 UE: Please go to www.redswan.at, our website, and find me on LinkedIn, Ursula.Eysin, my name.

0:35:13.5 WB: Right. We’ll put it in the show notes as well.

0:35:16.7 UE: Thank you very much.

0:35:17.1 WB: Any last parting comments for the listeners based around the discussion we’ve had today?

0:35:24.3 UE: We now need courageous business leaders who want to break through barriers. I think the whole world seems to be in a pressure cooker right now. And we stand, so it seems, at the crucial crossroads for both our common future and individual paths. It’s time to shed the illusion of hopelessness and actively shape how we live, how we work together, and how we do business. And I think scenario processes are a very good way to do that.

0:35:55.2 WB: Yeah, fully agree. Ursula, it’s been a great conversation. I really enjoyed it.

0:36:00.0 UE: It was my pleasure, Wayne.

0:36:02.0 WB: Yeah, it was fantastic.

0:36:04.6 UE: So did I. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It was really fantastic, Wayne.

0:36:11.8 S2: Thank you for joining us on the ET Project, a show for executive talent development, until next time, check out our site for free videos, ebooks, webinars and blogs at coaching4companies.com.

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